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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5982722" data-attributes="member: 87792">Please!&nbsp; D&amp;D always had ambitions to be more than just a combat game.&nbsp; And in 1974 that was genius.&nbsp; But it was barely prepared to take the necessary steps to follow through on those ambitions.&nbsp; The thief skills were hacked on the side in 1E.&nbsp; Again this was groundbreaking.&nbsp; But until 2000 it never actually went with much more than ambitions and sticking bits on the side.&nbsp;2e had pure hackwork for the NWPs.&nbsp; An ugly kludge saying &quot;Maybe PCs should be able to do things other than straight stat rolls&quot;.&nbsp;3.0 at least had a coherent and consistent skill system for resolving out of combat activities.&nbsp; Games like WFRP and GURPS had been doing this since the mid 80s.&nbsp;4e in addition to an integrated (and effectively capped) skill system had scene framing, explicit non-combat XP rewards, a level of meta-resource control, and a near end to magic being an &quot;I win&quot; button.&nbsp; I'd therefore rank it as early 21st Century level design for non-combat.&nbsp; Not a briliant example of such design but that's where they were aiming.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5982722, member: 87792"] Please! D&D always had [I]ambitions[/I] to be more than just a combat game. And in 1974 that was genius. But it was barely prepared to take the necessary steps to follow through on those ambitions. The thief skills were hacked on the side in 1E. Again this was groundbreaking. But until 2000 it never actually went with much more than ambitions and sticking bits on the side. 2e had pure hackwork for the NWPs. An ugly kludge saying "Maybe PCs should be able to do things other than straight stat rolls". 3.0 at least had a coherent and consistent skill system for resolving out of combat activities. Games like WFRP and GURPS had been doing this since the mid 80s. 4e in addition to an integrated (and effectively capped) skill system had scene framing, explicit non-combat XP rewards, a level of meta-resource control, and a near end to magic being an "I win" button. I'd therefore rank it as early 21st Century level design for non-combat. Not a briliant example of such design but that's where they were aiming. [/QUOTE]

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