Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5983288" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I'm going to save us both the trouble in the future by not responding to your statements like the above billd91.&nbsp;&nbsp; My post was a focused, specific rejoinder of the non-sequitur that 4e is nothing more than a Tactical Skirmish Game.&nbsp; More importantly, even if not objectively so, it is subjectively so to the folks who advocate that position and have an extremely enjoyable time playing the system. Nowhere in my post did I say or imply that you cannot be critical of 4e.&nbsp; In fact, constructive, well-articulated criticism (subjective or objective) of 4e is quite helpful.&nbsp; I've seen many articulate very useful information to that end (yourself among them).&nbsp; If you want to convince 4e advocates of the &quot;Tactical Skirmish Game Hypothesis&quot;, you have to make a compelling argument that provides evidence for the&nbsp; &quot;zero-sum&quot; engineering effort hypothesis and also convince 4e advocates&nbsp; that the fun that they are having (which they affirm is related to the&nbsp; other mechanical elements of the system) is an illusion or a product of&nbsp; circumstance rather than a derivative of the system interfacing with&nbsp; their preferences.&nbsp; Presumably, when you are in a dialogue with others or posting on an internet message board of various tastes/preferences, some of which are diametrically opposed to your own, you are attempting more than mere, shallow &quot;preaching to the choir/converted.&quot;&nbsp; In a specific forum dedicated to facilitating the next edition, finding possible areas of compromise and where compromise cannot be found, possible workarounds via modules, how are non-compelling (to the non-converted), seemingly gratuitous, incendiary, shallow provocations such as &quot;4e is little (nothing?) more than a Tactical Skirmish Game&quot; helpful to the end outlined above?&nbsp; Advocates have said, dozens and dozens of times over, that they do not agree with you (and there are dozens and dozens of posts why).&nbsp; The only end I see it helpful to serving is the &quot;high-fiving or chest-bumping the choir/converted&quot; end.&nbsp; I'm genuinely curious, why do you post that?&nbsp; What end does it serve for you (and others)?&nbsp; If its not gratuitous provocation, what is it?&nbsp; Is it truly another attempt to convince the non-converted without addressing the requisite means to compel them?&nbsp; Is it somehow cathartic?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5983288, member: 6696971"] I'm going to save us both the trouble in the future by not responding to your statements like the above billd91. My post was a focused, specific rejoinder of the non-sequitur that 4e is nothing more than a Tactical Skirmish Game. More importantly, even if not objectively so, it is subjectively so to the folks who advocate that position and have an extremely enjoyable time playing the system. Nowhere in my post did I say or imply that you cannot be critical of 4e. In fact, constructive, well-articulated criticism (subjective or objective) of 4e is quite helpful. I've seen many articulate very useful information to that end (yourself among them). If you want to convince 4e advocates of the "Tactical Skirmish Game Hypothesis", you have to make a compelling argument that provides evidence for the "zero-sum" engineering effort hypothesis and also convince 4e advocates that the fun that they are having (which they affirm is related to the other mechanical elements of the system) is an illusion or a product of circumstance rather than a derivative of the system interfacing with their preferences. Presumably, when you are in a dialogue with others or posting on an internet message board of various tastes/preferences, some of which are diametrically opposed to your own, you are attempting more than mere, shallow "preaching to the choir/converted." In a specific forum dedicated to facilitating the next edition, finding possible areas of compromise and where compromise cannot be found, possible workarounds via modules, how are non-compelling (to the non-converted), seemingly gratuitous, incendiary, shallow provocations such as "4e is little (nothing?) more than a Tactical Skirmish Game" helpful to the end outlined above? Advocates have said, dozens and dozens of times over, that they do not agree with you (and there are dozens and dozens of posts why). The only end I see it helpful to serving is the "high-fiving or chest-bumping the choir/converted" end. I'm genuinely curious, why do you post that? What end does it serve for you (and others)? If its not gratuitous provocation, what is it? Is it truly another attempt to convince the non-converted without addressing the requisite means to compel them? Is it somehow cathartic? [/QUOTE]

Verification