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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 5983343" data-attributes="member: 3400">I don't really care how much fun people are having with 4e. If they're having fun with it, that's entirely their business. But in discussions about where we want D&amp;D to go in the future, looking at 4e and where it loses a number of players brings us to a variety of impressions that 4e fans may not agree with or like. Many of these we've hashed over on the boards before but, since you're relatively new, we can certainly rehash.4e and the general drift toward short encounter/combat-based times in 3.5 reduce the scope of things characters do in the game in part because it reduces the scope of their focus on what the PCs are doing in the story to a very narrow band. That may be done for combat balance purposes (there's that impression it's a combat game again), but ultimately it's myopic.Example: When invisibility got its duration reduced in 3.5 to 1 minute/level, it had already lost most of its utility. Players were no longer thinking of using it for long-term reconnaissance or spying - it had become a combat time spell. 4e made it even worse since its duration is for a turn (unless they've changed that from my printed copy). Nobody's thinking in terms of &quot;This effect lasts 40 minutes - what can I get done in that time?&quot; It's now &quot;What can I do this encounter?&quot; If everything is short term tactical in scope, who's playing the strategic long game?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="billd91, post: 5983343, member: 3400"] I don't really care how much fun people are having with 4e. If they're having fun with it, that's entirely their business. But in discussions about where we want D&D to go in the future, looking at 4e and where it loses a number of players brings us to a variety of impressions that 4e fans may not agree with or like. Many of these we've hashed over on the boards before but, since you're relatively new, we can certainly rehash. 4e and the general drift toward short encounter/combat-based times in 3.5 reduce the scope of things characters do in the game in part because it reduces the scope of their focus on what the PCs are doing in the story to a very narrow band. That may be done for combat balance purposes (there's that impression it's a combat game again), but ultimately it's myopic. Example: When invisibility got its duration reduced in 3.5 to 1 minute/level, it had already lost most of its utility. Players were no longer thinking of using it for long-term reconnaissance or spying - it had become a combat time spell. 4e made it even worse since its duration is for a turn (unless they've changed that from my printed copy). Nobody's thinking in terms of "This effect lasts 40 minutes - what can I get done in that time?" It's now "What can I do this encounter?" If everything is short term tactical in scope, who's playing the strategic long game? [/QUOTE]

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