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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5984436" data-attributes="member: 87792">When the only reason your example makes a coherent argument is your use of 'humour', it's probably not worth making.&nbsp; Or are you really saying you can't force open a door and therefore need to give up?&nbsp; If it is simply that it makes it harder, do you really have a problem with the idea that some classes can make some things easier for the party?&nbsp;&nbsp;I play 4e.&nbsp; My last monk and my last warlock were both about as good as a rogue at picking locks.&nbsp; For that matter my last 3.X character was as good as well - he was an artificer (but couldn't sneak worth a damn).&nbsp;&nbsp;And I'm saying that classic D&amp;D fails miserably at your goal.&nbsp; Because the rogue is almost entirely unnecessary for problem solving - but the wizard and the cleric are both strictly necessary for solving a wide range of problems and allowing the party to do things they otherwise couldn't.&nbsp;I'll believe that the wizard should be able to knock and cast invisibility when either the rogue is either significantly better at both than the spell gets, the rogue gets to teleport the entire party, or the wizard can no longer teleport or fly the entire party.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5984436, member: 87792"] When the only reason your example makes a coherent argument is your use of 'humour', it's probably not worth making. Or are you really saying you can't force open a door and therefore need to give up? If it is simply that it makes it harder, do you really have a problem with the idea that some classes can make some things easier for the party? I play 4e. My last monk and my last warlock were both about as good as a rogue at picking locks. For that matter my last 3.X character was as good as well - he was an artificer (but couldn't sneak worth a damn). And I'm saying that classic D&D fails miserably at your goal. Because the rogue is almost entirely unnecessary for problem solving - but the wizard and the cleric are both strictly necessary for solving a wide range of problems and allowing the party to do things they otherwise couldn't. I'll believe that the wizard should be able to knock and cast invisibility when either the rogue is either significantly better at both than the spell gets, the rogue gets to teleport the entire party, or the wizard can no longer teleport or fly the entire party. [/QUOTE]

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