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<blockquote data-quote="BookTenTiger" data-source="post: 9215752" data-attributes="member: 6685541">You seem to be mixing up &quot;my actions matter&quot; with &quot;not following the rules of the game.&quot; Players want their actions to matter within the rules of the game. If I'm playing rock-paper-scissors, I want to win, but I want to do so by beating my opponent's choice, not just by someone declaring I'm the winner.Similarly, in an RPG I want to be able to make choices and take actions, and then use the ruleset of the game to resolve them. Let's take your heist as an example. If I find out that there's a vault with a billion coins in it, and I say &quot;I want to rob the vault,&quot; what I'm communicating to the DM is that I want to use the rules of the game we are playing to attempt to rob that vault. If you're playing D&amp;D, there are explicitly rules that allow you to do this- Stealth vs the guards' Perception, Dexterity Check using Thieves' Tools... Or just a good old fashioned Knock spell!Let's say we're doing a sandbox game, and the characters see the ruins of a castle on the horizon. If I say, &quot;I want to turn those ruins into my new fort,&quot; what I'm communicating is that through exploration, combat, finding and spending gold, and roleplaying, my characters wants to put in the work to turn the castle into his new fort. If the DM just said, &quot;Okay, it's your fort,&quot; I'd feel shortchanged. I'm agreeing to play a game with rules that allow my actions to have meaning, and I want to use those rules to play the game. If the DM says, &quot;No, you can't turn it into a fort because only Fighters get to do that,&quot; I also feel shortchanged because the DM isn't allowing my choices to have meaning. However, let's say the DM says something like, &quot;That sounds awesome, but it would require a really different campaign than we are playing right now.&quot; The DM is acknowledging my desire to turn the ruins into a fort, but we are agreeing to the kind of game we are playing, which may not allow those kinds of story choices. And that's alright.Please note that &quot;actions having meaning&quot; and &quot;whining&quot; are two entirely different things, and not related at all. When you say &quot;players will whine,&quot; you are really speaking down to people.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BookTenTiger, post: 9215752, member: 6685541"] You seem to be mixing up "my actions matter" with "not following the rules of the game." Players want their actions to matter [I]within the rules of the game[/I]. If I'm playing rock-paper-scissors, I want to win, but I want to do so by beating my opponent's choice, not just by someone declaring I'm the winner. Similarly, in an RPG I want to be able to make choices and take actions, and then use the ruleset of the game to resolve them. Let's take your heist as an example. If I find out that there's a vault with a billion coins in it, and I say "I want to rob the vault," what I'm communicating to the DM is that I want to use the rules of the game we are playing to attempt to rob that vault. If you're playing D&D, there are explicitly rules that allow you to do this- Stealth vs the guards' Perception, Dexterity Check using Thieves' Tools... Or just a good old fashioned Knock spell! Let's say we're doing a sandbox game, and the characters see the ruins of a castle on the horizon. If I say, "I want to turn those ruins into my new fort," what I'm communicating is that through exploration, combat, finding and spending gold, and roleplaying, my characters wants to put in the work to turn the castle into his new fort. If the DM just said, "Okay, it's your fort," I'd feel shortchanged. I'm agreeing to play a game with rules that allow my actions to have meaning, and I want to use those rules to play the game. If the DM says, "No, you can't turn it into a fort because only Fighters get to do that," I also feel shortchanged because the DM isn't allowing my choices to have meaning. However, let's say the DM says something like, "That sounds awesome, but it would require a really different campaign than we are playing right now." The DM is acknowledging my desire to turn the ruins into a fort, but we are agreeing to the kind of game we are playing, which may not allow those kinds of story choices. And that's alright. Please note that "actions having meaning" and "whining" are two entirely different things, and not related at all. When you say "players will whine," you are really speaking down to people. [/QUOTE]

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