Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 9222367" data-attributes="member: 4348">IT IS true.  The GM may decide the results...BUT they ARE results based off of their actions, at least in the second point.NOT having ANYTHING happen is when their choices don't matter.  They rob the coach and payment.  So what.  Nothing happens, their choices don't matter.  Choices MATTER BECAUSE they affect the world and something HAPPENS BECAUSE of those choices.To say that if the GM determines what those events are makes it so that their choices do not matter...well...what game are you playing?  The GM is the one who determines just about EVERYTHING in the game except random rolls.If the GM doesn't determine ANYTHING, and it's just whatever the players do, then NOTHING will EVER matter because NOTHING will ever happen.That payment...didn't occur...because the GM didn't choose to do anything.  Heck, the town doesn't exist because the GM decided not to design it.  In this case, the game won't even RUN because the GM doesn't do anything and doesn't decide anything.The choices matter BECAUSE THE GM DETERMINES that the choices matter and WHAT will happen BECAUSE the choices changed things.  THIS is why the players have these worries now, because the GM decides that the choices DID matter and BECAUSE they matter, there will be ramifications in the game world because of it.In the FIRST example, one may claim that the choices are determined by the dice (afterall, being discovered and killed by two high level characters and their army of characters will make some combats where the High Level characters rolls will probably more than easily destroy the low level PC's).  HOWEVER...Once again, the Treasury ONLY EXISTS because the GM has decided it exists.  The High level Wizard and Warlock only exist BECAUSE the GM determined they exist.  The Army of guards only exist BECAUSE the GM decided they exist.Take out the GM and you HAVE no GAME and if you have no GAME you have no way for the PC's to make choices in the first place.The PC's basically determine their actions.  The GM determines the world and the rest of what occurs beyond the PC's themselves.  For choices to matter at all, the GM HAS to decide IF those choices matter and then WHY those choices matter and WHAT the outcome would be of those choices.  Take out the GM's ability to do so and you either have a very static pre-written world that will not change no matter what the PC's choose (they want to rob the treasure...fine...you can't do that.  The world can't change due to your choices so you have no choices to make that will affect anything.  You can't touch the treasury or guards.  You can just sit around and talk and thats...that's about it).  It IS BECAUSE of the GM determine these things that choices can or WILL matter.  That is, if you are going to play a game like D&D or a similar game where the GM controls the world overall.If you are talking about a cooperative GMing game where each person decides what their PC does and it's actions and results and just informs everyone else...well...sure...that's a different game (and not the one I thought we were talking about).In D&D though, it's what the GM decides which DETERMINES IF the PC's actions matter or not and HOW they matter.</blockquote>

Verification