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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9228016" data-attributes="member: 23751">This is not a problem.  It's okay for auto success, auto failure and rolling when the outcome is in doubt.  That's how you play the game.  The issue is when the DM forces what he wants to happen, ignoring what should happen.  You've said you engage in railroading.  On a railroad the players' actions can't matter, since you are going to force what you want no matter what.So long as you keep saying "the players" you can't be correct here. Players in general don't believe that they must succeed.  Some rare few probably do, but as a whole "the players" don't.Nobody is saying that the lich should just fade away like it never existed.  Only that you shouldn't force the lich upon the players.  You want a specific example, I'll give you one.Several years ago the players didn't want to choose the them of the next campaign like they usually do and asked me to come up with something.  So I did some work on a campaign where the boundaries between the prime plane on Faerun and the Abyss were weakening and demons were starting to slip through into the world.  During the first session the PCs encountered some weak demons near a graveyard and decided that demons popping out was too much.  They decided to avoid the problem and head south to Amn to become pirates.  Okay.  Full reverse on my part.  Letting their actions actually matter, they started traveling south.  It's a long walk at low level, so I had time to work one a pirate campaign that the players really loved.Anyway, the demons still kept coming through and I'd periodically roll to see how well other heroes were handling things.  The problem became steadily worse and rumors of things would reach Amn.  I wasn't going to force the demons onto the PCs/players, but the issue still happened in the background, adding to the depth of the world.  They understood things were happening from beyond their control and influence.  No.  If they do something like that you have two choices. Improvise fairly, not as a counter to what they do, but what the organization would fairly have done.  Pause to think ahead at what defenses they would have in place and then let the players begin their attempt.  Or pause the game and let them know you need to prep for this since you weren't expecting it.  Then they can encounter the defenses and plan ways around them.The important part is not to force what you want(railroading) or to just come up with ways to shut down their ideas as they come up(adversarial DMing).Or not, because it doesn't work that way. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷‍♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging    :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /> Just let them know that the guards don't fall asleep.  My players wouldn't do that.  They'd leave and buy potions of invisibility or passwall scrolls to bypass the guards.  You know, planning to overcome the defenses.</blockquote>

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