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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9233601" data-attributes="member: 23751">In 5e all the rules needed to play the game are in the PHB and the DMG is entirely guidelines.  In 3e the rules to play the game were in both the PHB and the DMG, not just the DMG.  Page 13 under the heading Changing the Rules says, "Every rule in the Player’s Handbook was written for a reason. That doesn’t mean you can’t change some rules for your own game." It's clear from this that the skills rules in the PHB are rules for the DM to refer to.  Especially since earlier in the DMG it tells the DM to have the PHB ready to refer to when needed.The DMG skill rules are more general and involve interpretation, not hard rules.  What you are looking at in the DMG skills section are some random examples of skills on page 31, and general rules principals on page 34.  You are then misapplying the general rules section by saying that since skills aren't mentioned, the PHB skills rules aren't rules.If you look at page 34 of the DMG it gives the rules that apply in general.  The rules for spell DCs is a general formula: 10+spell level+caster ability modifier.  Monster ability DCs: 10+1/2 hit dice+monster ability modifier. Miscellaneous: 10 to 20 with 15 being default for anything not covered by any other rule.The reason you don't see skills in that section on page 34 is because there isn't a general rule formula for it.  The skill DC is highly dependent on what the PC is trying to do and the in game circumstances going on.  To help the DM figure out the DCs the DM needs to combine the PHB rules and DCs with the DMG advice on modification.In short, you are correct that the PHB DCs are a ballpark, but only because circumstances and DM interpretation can modify those numbers.  They are not hard numbers, but they are the base for the task described.  [USER=3987]@Bagpuss[/USER] is also correct that the PHB has the core rules for skill checks and is not just there to kinda sort give the players an idea.  The player can assume that the DC to climb an uneven surface with some narrow handholds and footholds is 20, with the understanding that if there is something the DM knows about the situation that the player doesn't, that number MIGHT be modified.  The DM should not be changing the DC from 20 to something else without reason, such as knowing that some of those handholds and footholds are loose, making it harder than it appears.</blockquote>

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