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<blockquote data-quote="Anguish" data-source="post: 4826653" data-attributes="member: 27032"><p>That's how most illusions work, yes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That on the other hand isn't how most illusions work. The save for interaction is meant to encompass whatever imperfection exists with an illusion. Realistically, the kama should have been present. Attempting to loot the coffin counts as interaction, just like burning the corpse. One save. Fail and you think you just stowed a kama in your backpack, burned a body, and scattered the ashes.</p><p></p><p>Once the characters fail their save, the situation needs to be over. The illusion school can be "gamed" by smart players. That's not fair. Mechanically a player can't keep coming up with reasons to give their character new Reflex saves against a <em>fireball</em>, so why should they be allowed to against an illusion? Much like <em>charm person</em>, the player may "know better" but the character doesn't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We weren't at the table, so it's hard to judge. It can be very frustrating to DM to a group that is gaming the rules. It's easy to start - in a nutshell - making crap up to make the players stop. The problem is that sooner or later the players will call you on your BS and the very authority you were trying to protect is shattered.</p><p></p><p>What I'm hearing from this whole scenario is that the DM set up a situation with a BBEG, at least one player didn't like the dice result of a saving throw and started applying his vast intellect to a situation he shouldn't have. This turned into a rules debate in the middle of a session, which is always a bad idea, and everyone ended up angry. Lose-lose.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Anguish, post: 4826653, member: 27032"] That's how most illusions work, yes. That on the other hand isn't how most illusions work. The save for interaction is meant to encompass whatever imperfection exists with an illusion. Realistically, the kama should have been present. Attempting to loot the coffin counts as interaction, just like burning the corpse. One save. Fail and you think you just stowed a kama in your backpack, burned a body, and scattered the ashes. Once the characters fail their save, the situation needs to be over. The illusion school can be "gamed" by smart players. That's not fair. Mechanically a player can't keep coming up with reasons to give their character new Reflex saves against a [I]fireball[/I], so why should they be allowed to against an illusion? Much like [i]charm person[/i], the player may "know better" but the character doesn't. We weren't at the table, so it's hard to judge. It can be very frustrating to DM to a group that is gaming the rules. It's easy to start - in a nutshell - making crap up to make the players stop. The problem is that sooner or later the players will call you on your BS and the very authority you were trying to protect is shattered. What I'm hearing from this whole scenario is that the DM set up a situation with a BBEG, at least one player didn't like the dice result of a saving throw and started applying his vast intellect to a situation he shouldn't have. This turned into a rules debate in the middle of a session, which is always a bad idea, and everyone ended up angry. Lose-lose. [/QUOTE]
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