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Message: <blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 4831802" data-attributes="member: 16285">Correct - but IMO that has "nothing" to do with disbelieving an illusion.When the OP phrased it as such that is when he crossed the line between player and PC knowledge.Whne the player who failed his saving through asked the other PC to do a detect magic to determine if it was an illusion or some other sort of trickery that is when it crossed between player knowledge and PC knowledge.If he had said that the kama was missing and that they should detect magic to "find it" or something along that path things would have beenperfectly fine IMO.  But the OP's post made it seem to me like the player who failed his save was trying to find a way to get around the fact that his PC thought things were fine - except for the missing kama.I honestly don't know why the DM gave them that piece of information in the first place though.But the fact that the PC failed the save means that the illusion seems real to him - hence the vampire itself is qppears the way it is supposed to be.Now the PC could be trying to find out where the missing kama went - but that should be a separate issue.And yes I would also expect the PCs to search the place for any loot.  If their standard method of searching included casting detect magic everything is fine per a normal preestablished pattern, if not then things are a tad different and why (as announced in character) they are doing it determines if it is metagaming or not. I absolutely agree with this one - but see the intent of casting detect magic from above and what was in the OP's original post.As far as the illusion goes...the DM can deal with the PCs gaming it to get around it.  He has given them good reason to make sure they are thourough.  There is no way to draw a line between player knowlege and character knowlege in this case.  It seems clear that there was sort of mishandling with the rules regarding illusions on the DMs part.I don't think that was what was posted - I believe it was cast detect illusion to determine if there is an illusion or other trickery. Which IMO is a lot different than allowing a rogue to do is normal speal by searching using skill checks.Now I make an assumption here based on the OPs posts - it appears that the DM got tired of trying to explain what the PCs knew versus what the player's knew and finally said "you can't do that regardless of the rules". IMO this was said out of frustration because the players were trying to "game the rules" and the "intent" of the saving throw results (and probably the same with skill check results too).</blockquote>

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