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<blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 4834892" data-attributes="member: 16285"><p>Saving throws and skill checks and to hit and damage rolls are all those used metagaming wise by players and DMs to edjudicate actions that PCs take.</p><p></p><p>No PC knows that a "saving throw" exists. They may know that sometimes magic works and sometimes it doesn't but that is about the extent of it.</p><p></p><p>The entire point of the saving throw is to ejudicate if the PC believes something or not. If we as players (and DMs) continue to second guess those results then there is no point in ever making the checks in the first place.</p><p></p><p>If, additional evidence is provided to give reason to doubt something that is another issue entirely. But in this case it was not.</p><p></p><p>The evidence that something wasn't quite right was the fact that the kama was missing. The failed saving throw is supposed to indicate that the PC believes it wasn't important to the overall illusion. Having PCs continue to act as if it was an illusion after it has already been determined that they beleive it to be true (aka the failed saving throw) totally bypasses the intent of the entire process IMO.</p><p></p><p>I have said that this does not mean they couldn't or wouldn't search for treasure in what their PCs believe is a reasonable method though. But that has nothing to do with proving or disporving the validity of the the existing illusion. Personally I am not all that sure that a standard method of finding treasure includes casting detect magic though, that is usually a spell reserved for finding out which treasure is more important than others - but it might be a part of the party's standard operating procedure in such cases.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="irdeggman, post: 4834892, member: 16285"] Saving throws and skill checks and to hit and damage rolls are all those used metagaming wise by players and DMs to edjudicate actions that PCs take. No PC knows that a "saving throw" exists. They may know that sometimes magic works and sometimes it doesn't but that is about the extent of it. The entire point of the saving throw is to ejudicate if the PC believes something or not. If we as players (and DMs) continue to second guess those results then there is no point in ever making the checks in the first place. If, additional evidence is provided to give reason to doubt something that is another issue entirely. But in this case it was not. The evidence that something wasn't quite right was the fact that the kama was missing. The failed saving throw is supposed to indicate that the PC believes it wasn't important to the overall illusion. Having PCs continue to act as if it was an illusion after it has already been determined that they beleive it to be true (aka the failed saving throw) totally bypasses the intent of the entire process IMO. I have said that this does not mean they couldn't or wouldn't search for treasure in what their PCs believe is a reasonable method though. But that has nothing to do with proving or disporving the validity of the the existing illusion. Personally I am not all that sure that a standard method of finding treasure includes casting detect magic though, that is usually a spell reserved for finding out which treasure is more important than others - but it might be a part of the party's standard operating procedure in such cases. [/QUOTE]
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