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Message: <blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 4835256" data-attributes="member: 16285">Give the PC a huge circumstance bonus on his save due to "knowledge".Now a nat 1 always fails just like a nat 20 always works (for saving throws and attack rolls).If you wish to ignore the game mechanics that is fine, but like everything in D&D it is supposed to be an abstraction.DM is absoultely correct here.With the failed saving throw the cleric is now convinced that he was in error about it being an illusion.Any argument by the player to the contrary is moot. That is the point of the saving throw - to reflect how the PC perceives things.He had a momentary thought that it was an illusion, but the saving throw (which reflects how he interprets this thought) indicated that he was "mistaken".Mistake on the DM's part.The "only" reason the PC is casting detect magic is becasue the player still believes it is an illusion while the PC does not.Absolutely meta-gaming, IMO.Not necessarily a cop out. It could have been, it all depends on where the cleric is "concentrating" and for how long.Remember that the spell detect magic works in a specific way depending on where and for how long you are concentrating.1st rnd presence or absence of magical auras2nd rnd number of different magical auras and power of the most potent aura (as in faint to overwhelming)3rd rnd strength and location of each aura. Requires a Spellcraft check to determine the school.More metagaming. You do not know how successful the PC is on his check.All predicated on the fact that the players were inserting their personal knowledge into the game mechanics.Wrong on the being dead part. Well for low level illusions anyway - high level ones will cause you to die.Also it seems like an assumption on the players parts as to how the DM would handle this.Here is an exedrcise to try. Look at it from the opposite side. The PCs are casting illusions how would the players want the NPCs to handle things if they fail their saving throws?</blockquote>

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