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<blockquote data-quote="Moff_Tarkin" data-source="post: 4840866" data-attributes="member: 14175"><p>Let me use a bluff/sense motive example. Social skills would seem to fit into this illusion argument because they both deal with your characters being convinced something is true because of a failed roll.</p><p></p><p>While walking through town, you see a short, fat, dirty, hunched over man in ratty clothes trying to sell expensive jewelry at extremely low prices on the street corner. Obviously you would be suspicious of such a man, and might suggest you party steer clear of him. But at that time the DM calls for a sense motive check. The DM tells you that you failed to beat his bluff. You must know fully believe that this man is honest is doing completely honest business. If fact, you character must now make a purchase from him. After all, these prices are too good to beat, and the only reason you wouldn’t buy them is because your using out of character knowledge about how they are stolen or fake. So your character is now forced to buy from this man, then you get arrested when the town guard suddenly shows up and sees you doing business with him.</p><p></p><p>You have every right to be suspicious if this man. Based on the evidence at hand, you make an assumption about whether he is trustworthy or not. Your DM can’t just roll a dice and tell you what you think and what you do. That’s not role-playing, that’s “roll” playing.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and as for the continuting argument? There seems to be a decent split in on this topic from what I have seen. Which means its a very two-sided debate. Not open and closed in the least. If everyone were on one side or the other, I wouldent see the need in fighting a already lost or won battle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Moff_Tarkin, post: 4840866, member: 14175"] Let me use a bluff/sense motive example. Social skills would seem to fit into this illusion argument because they both deal with your characters being convinced something is true because of a failed roll. While walking through town, you see a short, fat, dirty, hunched over man in ratty clothes trying to sell expensive jewelry at extremely low prices on the street corner. Obviously you would be suspicious of such a man, and might suggest you party steer clear of him. But at that time the DM calls for a sense motive check. The DM tells you that you failed to beat his bluff. You must know fully believe that this man is honest is doing completely honest business. If fact, you character must now make a purchase from him. After all, these prices are too good to beat, and the only reason you wouldn’t buy them is because your using out of character knowledge about how they are stolen or fake. So your character is now forced to buy from this man, then you get arrested when the town guard suddenly shows up and sees you doing business with him. You have every right to be suspicious if this man. Based on the evidence at hand, you make an assumption about whether he is trustworthy or not. Your DM can’t just roll a dice and tell you what you think and what you do. That’s not role-playing, that’s “roll” playing. Oh, and as for the continuting argument? There seems to be a decent split in on this topic from what I have seen. Which means its a very two-sided debate. Not open and closed in the least. If everyone were on one side or the other, I wouldent see the need in fighting a already lost or won battle. [/QUOTE]
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