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<blockquote data-quote="NewJeffCT" data-source="post: 4841711" data-attributes="member: 10784">No, he should not have seen the kama there. He should have been convinced the body itself was real.&nbsp; He may then think, &quot;oh,maybe the kama is underneath the body&quot; or &quot;maybe the kama was dropped elsewhere&quot; or &quot;the kama went to a hidden location&quot; or something else.&nbsp; If the kama was not part of the original illusion, it won't suddenly appear upon a failed Will save, even if this DM's illusions are on par with epic level spells.If the PCs had first done a detect magic before the Will save (&quot;Let's see if there are magical traps, cast detect magic first!&quot;) then it clearly would not have been metagaming.&nbsp; Even after the failed Will save, if the players had said, &quot;Cast detect magic, maybe the kama is hidden somewhere inside the coffin,&quot; it also clearly would not have been metagaming.&nbsp; Or, if they just said, &quot;let's cast detect magic on the whole room, I want that magical kama, where is it?&quot; I think they are fine as well.Additionally, since the PCs have had extensive experience with illusions, I don't think it's out of line for them to have asked for a detect magic in their situation, especially since there was missing treasure.&nbsp; Maybe the kama was hidden by illusion?&nbsp; I don't think the way the OP phrased it in game was the best way to do it, but I don't think he was out of line in asking for a detect magic there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NewJeffCT, post: 4841711, member: 10784"] No, he should not have seen the kama there. He should have been convinced the body itself was real. He may then think, "oh,maybe the kama is underneath the body" or "maybe the kama was dropped elsewhere" or "the kama went to a hidden location" or something else. If the kama was not part of the original illusion, it won't suddenly appear upon a failed Will save, even if this DM's illusions are on par with epic level spells. If the PCs had first done a detect magic before the Will save ("Let's see if there are magical traps, cast detect magic first!") then it clearly would not have been metagaming. Even after the failed Will save, if the players had said, "Cast detect magic, maybe the kama is hidden somewhere inside the coffin," it also clearly would not have been metagaming. Or, if they just said, "let's cast detect magic on the whole room, I want that magical kama, where is it?" I think they are fine as well. Additionally, since the PCs have had extensive experience with illusions, I don't think it's out of line for them to have asked for a detect magic in their situation, especially since there was missing treasure. Maybe the kama was hidden by illusion? I don't think the way the OP phrased it in game was the best way to do it, but I don't think he was out of line in asking for a detect magic there. [/QUOTE]

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