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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Moff_Tarkin" data-source="post: 4848361" data-attributes="member: 14175">I know its my fault. When I make an argument I don’t really put enough thought into making sure other people understand what I am talking about. Its easy to forget that other people don’t have the all the information on the argument that you do, and its easy to think that just because its clear to you that its clear to them.But now that I have finally made it clear let me add a little more to the argument that was supposed to be discussed. If the failed Will save causes us to stop believing the body is fake.The definition that irdeggman used in his last post for search, spot, and knowledge checks is essentially the same as mine. So we are in agreement there. Those skills or for determining what, and how much information your characters have. Succeeding on those skills gives your characters more information, but doesn’t take away information your characters already have. If your investigating a crime scene, and roll a 1 on your search check, you fail to find any new evidence. But the evidence you have is still there; failing your search check doesn’t make the bloody glove you found in the garbage can dissapear.We already had evidence that the corpse was fake, the missing kama. Failing a Will save means we gather no new information, and find no further proof that the corpse is fake. But the clue of the missing kama was still there.The reason I think the metagaiming argument is off track is this. This first time we called the corpse a fake there had been no save, and none of us had any information about the module. I don’t think anyone is making the claim that calling the corpse fake at that time was metagaming. The accusations of metagaming are there because we continued to call the corpse a fake “after” the save was failed. That’s why the original argument of this topic was supposed to be, “If our characters think a body is a fake, does failing a Will save cause us to give up on that belief. And if so, why.” If I had made the question more clear, we might not have gone on this long. Its my fault that we went on for so many pages without the real question even being asked, much rather answered.</blockquote>

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