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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
I wish WoW were like 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="Whizbang Dustyboots" data-source="post: 4218865" data-attributes="member: 11760"><p>WoW is a lot more like 4E than its predecessors, especially the painful-to-remember EQ1. Subsequent games -- starting, apparently, with LOTRO -- will no doubt take the trend even further.</p><p></p><p></p><p>OTOH, in an MMO, this leads to "sorry, we don't have room for you; we already have a tank." Getting the balance right between having a defined role and not being able to do anything else is a tricky one. WoW is better at this than EQ1 was -- hooray for being a class that ONLY does crowd control, or is barely able to do anything outside of a group, since they just heal/buff -- but obviously, the balance could be tweaked. (And will be, most likely, in the next expansion this winter.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what talents you're thinking of, here. Most of the ones that come to mind to me are just refinements of what was there all along, even if some folks ignored it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ugh, no. This is how EQ1 and CoX work, and it's hideous. First, it creates "required" slots in a group. Secondly, it creates an arms race with the developers, who respond by dumping ever more enemies onto a group, meaning you REALLY have to have CC just to bring things back to a manageable level again. WoW letting pretty much do some sort of CC (although it's obviously not all created equal) was a brilliant move.</p><p></p><p></p><p>DPS classes are second class citizens because they outnumber everyone else more than two to one. (I say as a level 70 hunter and a level 64 mage.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Every game that has a healer in it -- and not every MMO should *cough* CoX *cough* -- should definitely move this way. That said, if it ever becomes "optimal" to just focus on healing, there will be people who object to healers doing anything else.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Collision has its own set of problems, though. This isn't a quick fix by any means.</p><p></p><p>And threat in some form has to exist, otherwise NPCs just would attack randomly or whatever's closest. Have you DM have NPCs roll a die every round to see who they attack and see how unsatisfying that is for everyone.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is already pretty much the case. Standing still and waiting to get punched in the face as a glass cannon is a choice, not a requirement.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Heh, this is D&D. I don't really believe that gear is not going to be a major part of a high level character's effectiveness.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Whizbang Dustyboots, post: 4218865, member: 11760"] WoW is a lot more like 4E than its predecessors, especially the painful-to-remember EQ1. Subsequent games -- starting, apparently, with LOTRO -- will no doubt take the trend even further. OTOH, in an MMO, this leads to "sorry, we don't have room for you; we already have a tank." Getting the balance right between having a defined role and not being able to do anything else is a tricky one. WoW is better at this than EQ1 was -- hooray for being a class that ONLY does crowd control, or is barely able to do anything outside of a group, since they just heal/buff -- but obviously, the balance could be tweaked. (And will be, most likely, in the next expansion this winter.) I'm not sure what talents you're thinking of, here. Most of the ones that come to mind to me are just refinements of what was there all along, even if some folks ignored it. Ugh, no. This is how EQ1 and CoX work, and it's hideous. First, it creates "required" slots in a group. Secondly, it creates an arms race with the developers, who respond by dumping ever more enemies onto a group, meaning you REALLY have to have CC just to bring things back to a manageable level again. WoW letting pretty much do some sort of CC (although it's obviously not all created equal) was a brilliant move. DPS classes are second class citizens because they outnumber everyone else more than two to one. (I say as a level 70 hunter and a level 64 mage.) Every game that has a healer in it -- and not every MMO should *cough* CoX *cough* -- should definitely move this way. That said, if it ever becomes "optimal" to just focus on healing, there will be people who object to healers doing anything else. Collision has its own set of problems, though. This isn't a quick fix by any means. And threat in some form has to exist, otherwise NPCs just would attack randomly or whatever's closest. Have you DM have NPCs roll a die every round to see who they attack and see how unsatisfying that is for everyone. This is already pretty much the case. Standing still and waiting to get punched in the face as a glass cannon is a choice, not a requirement. Heh, this is D&D. I don't really believe that gear is not going to be a major part of a high level character's effectiveness. [/QUOTE]
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I wish WoW were like 4e
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