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Message: <blockquote data-quote="o3caudata" data-source="post: 5107441" data-attributes="member: 45361">[sblock=oc]So, that skip williams rules of the game article is old and dumb.  spellcraft check to activate the scroll? with the same dc? really? I'll take that.But his point was clear, failure to activate does not use up the spell.  Which doesn't make any sense because obviously a mishap entails something happening with the spell.  you can't have the spell target someone 'at random' if it was never cast.  unless the mishap is what activates the scroll... which is just confusing... but unrelated.  The scroll wasn't used up and can be retried as much as we're willing to.I would expect that should they have meant to apply the natural 1 failure to both rolls they would have used language to explicitly support that. (i'm not sure how i still carry any faith in their use of language though)reading the rules i don't see any reason to interpret the text to indicate that 1 is an auto fail on the caster level check.  i modeled the success chances for both 1 as an autofail and as a valid roll and there's no significant pattern exposed by either model.  There's not really any reason for me to 'believe' they meant it to apply to both.The 'whatever the modifiers' language strengthens (however slightly) the theory that it applies only to the mishap check as i don't believe there's anything in the core rules to modify your caster level for anything other than SR checks. It makes sense to me that they would specifically include the natural 1 failure applying only to the mishap chance, because by level ~8 it would be impossible for lots of casters to fail the mishap roll otherwise(assuming a reasonably strong starting attributes).   Meaning that any 8th level caster could safely cast (and retry) 9th level scrolls until they're successful, without any risk.So what i'm saying is... there's a good reason to have a natural 1 fail the mishap roll, there is no visible (to me at least) evidence to support it applying to the caster level check, and no significant impact on the outcomes of arbitrary CLC rolls to indicate that a natural 1 makes more 'sense' as a failure.[/sblock][sblock='lessoc'] That being said... and assuming you agree... Does Erd want to try again? Do we want her to?  Or are we going looking...[/sblock]</blockquote>

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