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ICE and the ENnies
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<blockquote data-quote="Rasyr" data-source="post: 3324114" data-attributes="member: 2855"><p>Yes, there is an ENnies website, but what takes place there? Not the selection of the judges, not the voting on the ENnies. The only thing the site is used for is to display information after the fact.</p><p></p><p>All meaningful discussion regarding the selection of judges is happening here on EN World, the world's largest d20 fan site. White Wolf fans, ICE fans, Palladium fans, etc.. are not going to want to come here to discuss what you want folks to consider as an industry-wide fan-based award.</p><p></p><p>If I gave you your own forum (and made you its moderator) over on the ICE website (or even on my own personal webiste) to use for all ENnies discussions, how many d20 fans do you think would go there to discuss the ENnies?</p><p></p><p>Not many, simply because they won't want to go to the website of a competitor of their favorite system. The same reasoning applies to the fans of the other systems. They don't want to come here. I have already had to slightly reprimand one poster on the ICE forums for being a bit too vehement in his comments in the thread that Treebore started over there.</p><p></p><p>Now, if the ENnies website has their own set of forums, and the the voting took place on THE ENnies website (as opposed to on the EN World website), then that would be fair to ALL potential voters, and not treating one group with favoritism. Those who want to be involved in discussing the ENnies could do so, without worry of being bashed by the d20 community for supporting another system or for posting their views.</p><p></p><p>Additionally, by tying things to these forums you are specifically limiting the voting pool to those you have not previously banned from the forums. Yes, I saw that the blurb for this year says that registration on the forums is not required, and that is a major step forward, but do the bans from the forums still affect who can access the voting site? I<strong>f so</strong>, then that is another way in which the ENnies are being unfair - as they would not be allowing everybody the chance to vote.</p><p></p><p>Yes, you own the ENnies, and you have the right to do with them what you want. I am just trying to point out that what you are currently doing with them is NOT FAIR to all, and that if you WANT the ENnies to be accepted industry-wide, then you have to make changes to accomplish that goal. As long as you keep them tied to a d20 fan site, they will be the d20 fan awards and nothing more, no matter how many other systems are entered...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Somehow or another I missed the following the first time I read Dextra's post. Then again, it was edited after I had read it (and opened it into a new window for replying to the bottom portion), so I don't know if I only missed it or it was added during the edit . Since I didn't quote that portion in my response, I just don't know. </p><p></p><p>But I was under the impression that the Board set the policy, not the judges. That seems like another problem area. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But this brings up the issue of not having a codified set of rules to start from. Participants have no idea what the rules are from year to year. There should be a solid, written set of rules that participants can count on (and that is what I am trying to stress). Not a set of rules that can drastically change from year to year depending upon which judges are elected.</p><p></p><p>If the ENnies had a codified set of rules and perhaps a set of guidelines that dictated how those rules can be changed.</p><p></p><p>In short, I can disagree with rules you use and still participate. However, what I won't do is participate in something that has no codified set of rules, and refuses to create a set, and who changes those rules from year to year (or has the potential to change them from year to year on the whim of the judges).</p><p></p><p>The judges should not be setting policy, they should be implementing it. And once again, it falls back to it all happening on EN World rather than on the ENnies website. It should be happening there, not here. </p><p></p><p>In any case, it still falls back on two main points:</p><p></p><p>1) Codified rules (that cannot be changed on a whim -- note that that was another complaint against the OAs (there were many problems with them), that the rules could be changed from year to year without notice).</p><p></p><p>2) Moving all ENnies processes to the ENnies website, not having them on a the world's largest d20-dedicated fan site.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rasyr, post: 3324114, member: 2855"] Yes, there is an ENnies website, but what takes place there? Not the selection of the judges, not the voting on the ENnies. The only thing the site is used for is to display information after the fact. All meaningful discussion regarding the selection of judges is happening here on EN World, the world's largest d20 fan site. White Wolf fans, ICE fans, Palladium fans, etc.. are not going to want to come here to discuss what you want folks to consider as an industry-wide fan-based award. If I gave you your own forum (and made you its moderator) over on the ICE website (or even on my own personal webiste) to use for all ENnies discussions, how many d20 fans do you think would go there to discuss the ENnies? Not many, simply because they won't want to go to the website of a competitor of their favorite system. The same reasoning applies to the fans of the other systems. They don't want to come here. I have already had to slightly reprimand one poster on the ICE forums for being a bit too vehement in his comments in the thread that Treebore started over there. Now, if the ENnies website has their own set of forums, and the the voting took place on THE ENnies website (as opposed to on the EN World website), then that would be fair to ALL potential voters, and not treating one group with favoritism. Those who want to be involved in discussing the ENnies could do so, without worry of being bashed by the d20 community for supporting another system or for posting their views. Additionally, by tying things to these forums you are specifically limiting the voting pool to those you have not previously banned from the forums. Yes, I saw that the blurb for this year says that registration on the forums is not required, and that is a major step forward, but do the bans from the forums still affect who can access the voting site? I[b]f so[/b], then that is another way in which the ENnies are being unfair - as they would not be allowing everybody the chance to vote. Yes, you own the ENnies, and you have the right to do with them what you want. I am just trying to point out that what you are currently doing with them is NOT FAIR to all, and that if you WANT the ENnies to be accepted industry-wide, then you have to make changes to accomplish that goal. As long as you keep them tied to a d20 fan site, they will be the d20 fan awards and nothing more, no matter how many other systems are entered... Somehow or another I missed the following the first time I read Dextra's post. Then again, it was edited after I had read it (and opened it into a new window for replying to the bottom portion), so I don't know if I only missed it or it was added during the edit . Since I didn't quote that portion in my response, I just don't know. But I was under the impression that the Board set the policy, not the judges. That seems like another problem area. But this brings up the issue of not having a codified set of rules to start from. Participants have no idea what the rules are from year to year. There should be a solid, written set of rules that participants can count on (and that is what I am trying to stress). Not a set of rules that can drastically change from year to year depending upon which judges are elected. If the ENnies had a codified set of rules and perhaps a set of guidelines that dictated how those rules can be changed. In short, I can disagree with rules you use and still participate. However, what I won't do is participate in something that has no codified set of rules, and refuses to create a set, and who changes those rules from year to year (or has the potential to change them from year to year on the whim of the judges). The judges should not be setting policy, they should be implementing it. And once again, it falls back to it all happening on EN World rather than on the ENnies website. It should be happening there, not here. In any case, it still falls back on two main points: 1) Codified rules (that cannot be changed on a whim -- note that that was another complaint against the OAs (there were many problems with them), that the rules could be changed from year to year without notice). 2) Moving all ENnies processes to the ENnies website, not having them on a the world's largest d20-dedicated fan site. [/QUOTE]
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