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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5852093" data-attributes="member: 2067">Personally, I think this problem is largely born out of the idea of D&D polytheism. In that context, it doesn't work -- the goddess of lust probably doesn't have stick-in-the-mud paladins, and the god of thieves probably looks at chain mail and maces and laughs, and the god of wealth and luxury would not care about studying esoteric magical theological whatisis at a monestary somewhere. A typical judeo-christian kind of civilization-and-helpfulness god works for any of them, but change that assumption, and suddenly there is a tremendous mismatch.So lets go with this assumption to see it in a different light: in Campaign Setting X, there is no such thing a god. Everyone's an atheist, and they are all absolutely correct. There are still cleric and paladin and "priest" classes. How do they look?See, Paladins are about bringing light to the darkness. In Campaign Setting X, paladins are knights in shining armor who serve as great examples of what a community member should be. They're probably nobles, aristocrats, and they are certainly benevolent with their authority. They're still ardent atheists, but they see the value in uniting the intelligent races to build something greater and more equitable than any civilization so far has yet managed to achieve. They go forth into the wilderness, they unite the enslaved, they fight against the problems society has directly. This is why the get horses and have expensive armor and are all brave and smitey and charismatic -- they're leaders of the charge! Some evil baby-killing orcs invading? Send them an army, with a paladin at the forefront! (the Combat pillar!)And Clerics? They're about keeping the home fires lit. In Campaign Setting X, clerics are defenders of the home front who nuture and protect those in their care. They may not be aristocrats, but they are linked to the greater society, and they tend to people by protecting them -- dressed in chain mail, with a shield, and a mace. The mace is symbolic: clerics prefer peace, and would rather not kill, so they try not to draw blood as a symbolic way to represent that. They keep watch over the flock, they protect the townsfolk, they fight against the problems that those in their care have. They're ardent athiests, but they recognize that people are generally weak, and that they have special abilities to help care for the weak. This is why they have healing powers, and why they turn undead (a common problem in civilized areas: your buried dead not staying that way). Some ghost or demon possibly swaying the king? Send in the Cleric, with a support group! (the Social pillar!)And "Priests"? They try to discover the nature of light itself. In Campaign Setting X, while there are no gods, there IS magical power all about, and priests are those who seek to gain that magical power through various rites, rituals, and observances. They are ascetics who sit atop pillars for years without eating. They fast, they refrain from pleasure, they live on islands in cloisters of people who never speak. They dance until they're in a trance. They take odd substances, hallucinate, and call it a revelation. They're trying to discover the mysteries of the universe and of the essence of magical power. That's why they have abilities of insight and interdiction: powerful, but at a great cost. Got a mysterious koan that some wandering witch gave you? Send in the Priest and his buddies, they can help out. (the Exploration pillar!)So now we bring back gods, and we find that paladins, clerics, and priests as we have defined them above are only relevant to certain gods. The goddess of lust doesn't care about them (she's more into bards and rogues!). The god of the sea doesn't care about them (more rangers, fighters). The god of wealth might take kindly to an aristocratic paladin, though. And any god of protection, civilization, knowledge, or light would be eager to claim them. Not every god has a cleric, or a paladin, or a priest. The divine gifts of the god of the wilderness might be bestowed on druids or rangers; the divine gifts of the goddess of lust might be bestowed on bards or enchanters; the divine gifts of the gods of protection and nobility and civilization fall onto the shoulders of those three classes.A paladin is not a warrior of a god, he is a military champion of the people. A cleric is not a warrior of a god, she is a defender and nurturer of the people. A "priest" is not a mystic of a god, she is a mystic in general, as much wu-jen as anything else. If you define the classes in this way, you can't keep them tethered to the ever-shifting, ever-changable D&D pantheon. If you want to play someone devoted to the goddess of lust in this game model, you don't play a cleric of the goddess of lust. You play a bard. The goddess of lust doesn't care about clerics (except maybe to guard her harems).</blockquote>

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