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<blockquote data-quote="Harlock" data-source="post: 5966946" data-attributes="member: 4545">Great! Now we are getting somewhere. This, however, will lead us into things like &quot;balance&quot;, etc. and that's always sticky when the game has supported different styles and levels of balance. Personally, I fall back on the old standby that nothing is preventing the wizard from contributing to the party even without spells. He may still have a weapon or two. He can still negoatiate in the Caves of Chaos.Perhaps a wand? I personally like the idea of an implement that allows at-will, low-powered magical attacks comparable to a wizard's melee attack in function and damage. It helps maintain the flavor of the wizard while still allowing him to contribute. Perhaps it even makes saving all those spells for one nova less attractive because now he can spread them out and still &quot;be a wizard&quot; and contribute.And, I know no one likes this solution because it &quot;must be&quot; a symptom of bad game design, but sometimes a DM can talk to a player and see why they behave a certain way and see what can be done to change that behavior. As a DM I've talked to players before specifically about behaviors, and about other things as well. As a player, I've had many a talk with a DM outside of the game, when their campaign wasn't for me to see if we could reach some compromise.If one's chief complaint is that Vancian magic shouldn't be used in the first place, I think Mr. Mearls has already stated that wizards will use Vancian and other casters may have different options recently on his Twitter feed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Harlock, post: 5966946, member: 4545"] Great! Now we are getting somewhere. This, however, will lead us into things like "balance", etc. and that's always sticky when the game has supported different styles and levels of balance. Personally, I fall back on the old standby that nothing is preventing the wizard from contributing to the party even without spells. He may still have a weapon or two. He can still negoatiate in the Caves of Chaos. Perhaps a wand? I personally like the idea of an implement that allows at-will, low-powered magical attacks comparable to a wizard's melee attack in function and damage. It helps maintain the flavor of the wizard while still allowing him to contribute. Perhaps it even makes saving all those spells for one nova less attractive because now he can spread them out and still "be a wizard" and contribute. And, I know no one likes this solution because it "must be" a symptom of bad game design, but sometimes a DM can talk to a player and see why they behave a certain way and see what can be done to change that behavior. As a DM I've talked to players before specifically about behaviors, and about other things as well. As a player, I've had many a talk with a DM outside of the game, when their campaign wasn't for me to see if we could reach some compromise. If one's chief complaint is that Vancian magic shouldn't be used in the first place, I think Mr. Mearls has already stated that wizards will use Vancian and other casters may have different options recently on his Twitter feed. [/QUOTE]

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