Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
ideas for caster runes (homebrew)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8543372" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>A good DM can overcome every really poor rules. But that is a given and we cannot have a meaningful discussion about the quality of a ruleset if "but I made it work well" is considered a meaningful objection. </p><p></p><p>I maintain that low-level casters work poorly in PF2 for multiple reasons. Whether you (or I) can make it work anyway is beside the point.</p><p></p><p>The game deserves criticism on this point - when you're looking to play a caster at low levels PF2 just isn't an attractive choice of ruleset. We all know the common wisdom is that the old school "truth" is that "it should suck to play a low level caster". PF2 fails at fixing this. </p><p></p><p>Notably, the main competitor, 5E, does <em>not</em> fail at this crucial task. </p><p></p><p>Why does PF2 fail? It is a mixture of many independent bad design decisions, but it chiefly boils down to the way PF2 starts out tilting the balance toward Team Monster and only slowly tilts it back in the heroes' favor. But high level heroes does not need that favor - and especially not high level casters. On the other hand low level heroes do - and especially, desperately so, low level casters. The entire game is just on the wrong trajectory, and the inadequate playtesting failed to persuade Paizo to do anything about it when there was still time.</p><p></p><p>Another important factor is how apparently someone at Paizo genuinely believes it is okay to publish a game that expects low-level Wizard players to be content playing Accountants. That is my derisive term for a class that should not try to win fights by himself, but instead be content with spending his precious few spell slots on giving monsters -1 debuffs and otherwise spend two actions doing what martials need only one to do.</p><p></p><p><em>Important Note:</em> since the Heal spell is just about the only spell that does not suck for a low-level caster, healbot Clerics are not included in my criticism. In fact, the healbot Cleric is easily the best choice for <em>any</em> would-be low-level hero.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I have analyzed several attempts at solving the issue discussed in this thread and have come up short. When it comes to solutions that are simple to implement and really solves the issue without overloading an already insanely cluttered game with more complexity, I have found very few suggestions that come close. Paizo have created a game that is actively hostile to any user-initiated houseruling. There are just so very many connected parts it is ten times as difficult to tweak one thing without inadvertently deteriorate a dozen other things.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand "just don't play a Wizard at first" is maximally simple while completely fixing the issue. Yes of course it feels unsatisfactory, but it is by far the most practical suggestion. So that must be my recommendation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8543372, member: 12731"] A good DM can overcome every really poor rules. But that is a given and we cannot have a meaningful discussion about the quality of a ruleset if "but I made it work well" is considered a meaningful objection. I maintain that low-level casters work poorly in PF2 for multiple reasons. Whether you (or I) can make it work anyway is beside the point. The game deserves criticism on this point - when you're looking to play a caster at low levels PF2 just isn't an attractive choice of ruleset. We all know the common wisdom is that the old school "truth" is that "it should suck to play a low level caster". PF2 fails at fixing this. Notably, the main competitor, 5E, does [I]not[/I] fail at this crucial task. Why does PF2 fail? It is a mixture of many independent bad design decisions, but it chiefly boils down to the way PF2 starts out tilting the balance toward Team Monster and only slowly tilts it back in the heroes' favor. But high level heroes does not need that favor - and especially not high level casters. On the other hand low level heroes do - and especially, desperately so, low level casters. The entire game is just on the wrong trajectory, and the inadequate playtesting failed to persuade Paizo to do anything about it when there was still time. Another important factor is how apparently someone at Paizo genuinely believes it is okay to publish a game that expects low-level Wizard players to be content playing Accountants. That is my derisive term for a class that should not try to win fights by himself, but instead be content with spending his precious few spell slots on giving monsters -1 debuffs and otherwise spend two actions doing what martials need only one to do. [I]Important Note:[/I] since the Heal spell is just about the only spell that does not suck for a low-level caster, healbot Clerics are not included in my criticism. In fact, the healbot Cleric is easily the best choice for [I]any[/I] would-be low-level hero. --- Anyway, I have analyzed several attempts at solving the issue discussed in this thread and have come up short. When it comes to solutions that are simple to implement and really solves the issue without overloading an already insanely cluttered game with more complexity, I have found very few suggestions that come close. Paizo have created a game that is actively hostile to any user-initiated houseruling. There are just so very many connected parts it is ten times as difficult to tweak one thing without inadvertently deteriorate a dozen other things. On the other hand "just don't play a Wizard at first" is maximally simple while completely fixing the issue. Yes of course it feels unsatisfactory, but it is by far the most practical suggestion. So that must be my recommendation. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
ideas for caster runes (homebrew)
Top