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Message: <blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 5889808" data-attributes="member: 29746">36 was the maximum mortal level in BECMI of course; after that you had to go Immortal or stay where you were.My own 3.X setting had class tables extended, partly but not entirely based on the ELH rules, up to 40th level. For the PF version I decided that 40 was probably too high given how PF upped the power quotient of the core classes, and only extended them to 30. The hardest part of that is deciding how to handle the capstones granted at 20th, and what to grant for new capstones at 30th.I wouldn't use the Epic spell system from the ELH again, definitely- though I have toyed with the idea of making a few 10th or higher level spells to give casters above 20th something extra to do.Given the extension to 30th for all base classes, I would also use the hard-cap rule once characters hit those. No more than 30 levels in any one base class, and 10 in most Prestige Classes. It fits PF's paradigm better, I think- though I could also see extending the base classes to 36th for the reasons gamerprinter noted.For Immortals rules under PF, I can say that Upper_Krust's Immortal's Handbook worked pretty well under 3.5, if you took care of some of the more egregious power problems like Power Attack (he has some Immortal abilities that increase the multipliers on damage when you use it), it's actually a pretty elegant system. I transitioned my Epic game to use the IH, modified slightly to fit the setting and existing house rules, and never looked back- ran that game for two years and had some of the most memorable stories and game events I've ever even heard of- let alone experienced personally.IH would need some fairly heavy modification to work with PF, since several of the base assumptions under which the IH was made changed between editions (for example, the way skill points are allocated and used), but it'd be doable.EDIT: And people who hate Epic play, or think it's a "plague" as gamerprinter helpfully said, have clearly never played in a decently-run and set-up Epic game. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> You want an example of a good one, look at Sepulchrave's Story Hour (Tales of Wyre, in the Story Hour forum) and see what one can really do with Epic rules. The key is always to think and do Big- and never shy away from changing the world in a significant (even major) way because of things PCs did. IME that's always what trips people up who try to go Epic when they're used to low-level games: they keep trying to stay small. You can't do that with Epic; it just doesn't work.</blockquote>

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