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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hobbit4Hire$" data-source="post: 9367485" data-attributes="member: 7044635">Hello everyone.In games like <a href="https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/44903/the-primal-order" target="_blank">The Primal Order</a> and <a href="https://rpggeek.com/rpg/704/new-gods-of-mankind" target="_blank">New Gods of Mankind</a> and <a href="https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_2265.phtml" target="_blank">Senzar</a>, there are rules for playing as gods, based on the assumption that the gods are dependent upon worshipers or belief. No worshipers, and the gods die. Essentially, the gods are like the contempory "<a href="https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/the-symbolic-world-vs-egregores-part-1" target="_blank">egregore</a>," an "spirit" or super-powered entity that in some way emerges from, and feeds upon, the collective belief and behavior of a community. However, in much theology and mythology, as well as in games like Runequest, the gods pre-exist mortals. For example, in settings like Glorantha from Runequest or Pathfinder, the gods pre-exist mortals, and do not need worship for survival. This has me wondering, how would one set up a god-game in settings like Runequest or Pathfinder, where the gods do not depend upon mortal belief for survival? My own take is that the gods themselves seem to exist outside of mortal time and place, and thus cannot be properly "statted" or quantified by mortals. In-universe, mortals cannot affect the gods.However, I do think one can stat out, and quantify, the "divine manifestation," of the detectable presence of a divine force working in the human world. The idea is similar to the thinking of Jonathan Pageau, who, inspired by Platonic and Christian metaphysics, argues that: "these things [angels, demons, and other spirits" manifest in the world through humanity, whose action “provides body” for them.  In this way the pattern of the being above receives concrete expression in the potential below. Top-down emanation meets with bottom-up emergence. In Pageau’s model, this bidirectional flow seems to be necessary in all cases. Every higher-order system is the meeting of a spiritual principle with the substantial constituents of its body. ... the bodies of higher beings seem to be highly variable in terms of character, size, and makeup. Sports teams, corporations, remote-control robots, cities—all of these disparate types of entities have at various times been characterised by Pageau as higher beings.  ... The various human and material components come together in synchrony, united under the common identity that is the principle of their organisation. ..." (<a href="https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/the-symbolic-world-vs-egregores-part-1" target="_blank">read more here</a>)I am still working on the idea. I would love to know your thoughts.</blockquote>

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