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<blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 153621" data-attributes="member: 743">The best solution, and most lasting one, would be an out of game solution. Sit down with your players and explain to them how it is disrupting the flow of the game. Let them know that you would prefer to runt he game differently. However, you should also be willing to compromise. the Spellcraft skill is fairly useful, and can make or break a combat in my game. For example, a NPC wizard cast Spell Turning. Had both the party sorcerer and wizard failed their Spellcraft checks, it would have been pretty painful for them.What you have to do is find a medium where good description and Spellcraft rolls will allow the player characters to identify spells. Tell them you will let them know when to roll Spellcraft, and then stick to it. If an enemy casts a spell they could recognize, be sure to tell them to roll. If its a spell they couldn't recognize (because its new) then tell them not to bother.Above all, it is necessary for DM and players to maintain a level of trust. Games are always much more fun and flow more smoothly when that occurs.Finally, to counter any arguments of &quot;but we can identify anythign&quot; explain to them that the known spells (i.e. spell in the PHB, T&amp;B, DotF, and any other supplements the group uses) are widely known spells that have been partof magical history for several hundred years, and are thus subject to instant recognition. However, any new spells, or variants, are not so widely known. They should be able to get a vague idea of what the spell does, perhaps school and purpose (defensive, offensive, conjuring, etc.) But to actually learn the exact ranges, damage dice, etc. of such spells is beyond the scope of a Spellcraft check. After all, the wizard in question doesn't even know what&nbsp; &quot;damage dice&quot; and &quot;saving throws&quot; mean.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James McMurray, post: 153621, member: 743"] The best solution, and most lasting one, would be an out of game solution. Sit down with your players and explain to them how it is disrupting the flow of the game. Let them know that you would prefer to runt he game differently. However, you should also be willing to compromise. the Spellcraft skill is fairly useful, and can make or break a combat in my game. For example, a NPC wizard cast Spell Turning. Had both the party sorcerer and wizard failed their Spellcraft checks, it would have been pretty painful for them. What you have to do is find a medium where good description and Spellcraft rolls will allow the player characters to identify spells. Tell them you will let them know when to roll Spellcraft, and then stick to it. If an enemy casts a spell they could recognize, be sure to tell them to roll. If its a spell they couldn't recognize (because its new) then tell them not to bother. Above all, it is necessary for DM and players to maintain a level of trust. Games are always much more fun and flow more smoothly when that occurs. Finally, to counter any arguments of "but we can identify anythign" explain to them that the known spells (i.e. spell in the PHB, T&B, DotF, and any other supplements the group uses) are widely known spells that have been partof magical history for several hundred years, and are thus subject to instant recognition. However, any new spells, or variants, are not so widely known. They should be able to get a vague idea of what the spell does, perhaps school and purpose (defensive, offensive, conjuring, etc.) But to actually learn the exact ranges, damage dice, etc. of such spells is beyond the scope of a Spellcraft check. After all, the wizard in question doesn't even know what "damage dice" and "saving throws" mean. [/QUOTE]

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