Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
If a DM can't cheat, can a player cheat?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Owen K.C. Stephens" data-source="post: 1734847" data-attributes="member: 3190"><p>Cheating is a serious problem with some groups. My baseline is always to assume a group opposes cheating, but to also give everyone the benefit of the doubt.</p><p></p><p>One of the reasons its a problem is "spotlight" time. everyone has good days and bad days with die luck. On your good days, you get to resist the powerful spell, make the difficult skill check, then kill the major bad guy with an amazing critical.</p><p></p><p>On the bad days, you're taken out of the fight with a failed save on the first round.</p><p></p><p>These balance out, over time. Everyone suffers the lows and gets to enjoy the highs. Someone who cheats gets too many highs, and is thus stealing the spotlight of attention from other players. He's taking more than his fair share of fun.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes, someone appears to have an amazing run of good luck. When that's the case, it's not unreasonable (in my opinion) to ask him to make sure he uses a big, well-marked, obvious die that everyone can see when rolling. Explain this is not to prevent cheating, but to make sure everyone knows, up front, that future good rolls are just expanded luck. Even if the guy wasn't cheating, this will prevent possible resentment later on. If he was cheating, and this stops it, the problem is still solved. In any case, in my experience if this is handled diplomatically and without accusation, it goes pretty well.</p><p></p><p>If you know for sure someone is cheating, make sure to tell them it's unacceptable. Then, go to the rolling the big die. And once you institute this rule, it's a good idea to make sure everyone (with the exception og the GM, who needs to keep information secret) is required to roll well-marked and visible dice, to prevent other resentment.</p><p></p><p>If a player seems to just be cheating to prevent a character from being killed, you might consider institutiong drama points or action dice or some other limited script-immunity mechanism that everyone can use. One reroll per game, even. Then, well-marked dice and no more player fudging tolerated.</p><p></p><p>If someone still cheats, give one warning, and explain future cheating will result in being disinvited from playing. Stck to that warning.</p><p></p><p>Spotlight time and player resentment can be serious issues, and often players don't feel it's their job to complain about such problems, leaving it to the GM to regulate them. After gaming for 23 years, I just this week had for the very first time a gamer tell me he didn't want to game with me anymore. My only recourse was to ask him to leave the game, or leave myself. As he ran one game on that night, and is roommate to two of the four other players for the other game, there was no realistic way to ask him to leave. As no one else in the group suggested I stay, I left.</p><p></p><p>The reason he gave for not wanting to game with me was that my valid, legal, toned-down from their maximum possible effectiveness characters were too powerful. As a GM, he felt he couldn't challenge my PC. As a player, my higher level of effectiveness and success made the game less fun for him. Though no one supported his claims or agreed they didn't want to play with me, two other players did say my characters were "a bit much."</p><p></p><p>Now, I would have thought that two years of gaming as a group was plenty of time to mention such problems before they rose to the "don't want to play with you" level, but apparently no one wanted to say anything. This case may have been badly handled, but the basic problem remained. Players can get very frustrated if they feel they're not getting their share of heroic action, and cheaters unfairly grab more of it.</p><p></p><p>Take steps now, to prevent a slow boil of jealousy and resentment.</p><p></p><p>Play Well!</p><p>Owen K.C. Stephens</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Owen K.C. Stephens, post: 1734847, member: 3190"] Cheating is a serious problem with some groups. My baseline is always to assume a group opposes cheating, but to also give everyone the benefit of the doubt. One of the reasons its a problem is "spotlight" time. everyone has good days and bad days with die luck. On your good days, you get to resist the powerful spell, make the difficult skill check, then kill the major bad guy with an amazing critical. On the bad days, you're taken out of the fight with a failed save on the first round. These balance out, over time. Everyone suffers the lows and gets to enjoy the highs. Someone who cheats gets too many highs, and is thus stealing the spotlight of attention from other players. He's taking more than his fair share of fun. Sometimes, someone appears to have an amazing run of good luck. When that's the case, it's not unreasonable (in my opinion) to ask him to make sure he uses a big, well-marked, obvious die that everyone can see when rolling. Explain this is not to prevent cheating, but to make sure everyone knows, up front, that future good rolls are just expanded luck. Even if the guy wasn't cheating, this will prevent possible resentment later on. If he was cheating, and this stops it, the problem is still solved. In any case, in my experience if this is handled diplomatically and without accusation, it goes pretty well. If you know for sure someone is cheating, make sure to tell them it's unacceptable. Then, go to the rolling the big die. And once you institute this rule, it's a good idea to make sure everyone (with the exception og the GM, who needs to keep information secret) is required to roll well-marked and visible dice, to prevent other resentment. If a player seems to just be cheating to prevent a character from being killed, you might consider institutiong drama points or action dice or some other limited script-immunity mechanism that everyone can use. One reroll per game, even. Then, well-marked dice and no more player fudging tolerated. If someone still cheats, give one warning, and explain future cheating will result in being disinvited from playing. Stck to that warning. Spotlight time and player resentment can be serious issues, and often players don't feel it's their job to complain about such problems, leaving it to the GM to regulate them. After gaming for 23 years, I just this week had for the very first time a gamer tell me he didn't want to game with me anymore. My only recourse was to ask him to leave the game, or leave myself. As he ran one game on that night, and is roommate to two of the four other players for the other game, there was no realistic way to ask him to leave. As no one else in the group suggested I stay, I left. The reason he gave for not wanting to game with me was that my valid, legal, toned-down from their maximum possible effectiveness characters were too powerful. As a GM, he felt he couldn't challenge my PC. As a player, my higher level of effectiveness and success made the game less fun for him. Though no one supported his claims or agreed they didn't want to play with me, two other players did say my characters were "a bit much." Now, I would have thought that two years of gaming as a group was plenty of time to mention such problems before they rose to the "don't want to play with you" level, but apparently no one wanted to say anything. This case may have been badly handled, but the basic problem remained. Players can get very frustrated if they feel they're not getting their share of heroic action, and cheaters unfairly grab more of it. Take steps now, to prevent a slow boil of jealousy and resentment. Play Well! Owen K.C. Stephens [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
If a DM can't cheat, can a player cheat?
Top