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If A King whose wife died younger later remarries could 1 of his 2 children from his 1st marriage inherit some of his 2nd wives lands
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8962050" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>You'd almost certainly have to deal with some fake claims on the title ("she was the great-granddaughter of my mother's father's sister" etc.—family lines <em>completely</em> dying out is an uncommon thing, especially when we allow fully cognatic inheritance, that is, when male and female lines are equally valid for inheritance.</p><p></p><p>The problem is, these succession laws were really, <em>really</em> important to the aristocracy in general back when vassalage* was a big deal. It was a HUGE problem to break the laws of succession, literally enough to trigger whole civil wars if the break was big enough. That doesn't mean no one did it, <em>plenty</em> of people did, but the idea was that these laws were one of the few protections for the nobility against royals being crappy to them, which was a real concern for a lot of people.</p><p></p><p>That said: if it were in fact actually, provably the case that no living person remained who was descended from the original holder of the title, then [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] is the closest to correct here. Properly speaking, the royal crown did not own <em>that</em> much land (most of it was seen as belonging to <em>God</em> and thus merely administered, not truly owned, by the Church), but the Crown reserves the right to <em>create titles,</em> and any created title that falls into this situation would be considered defunct, or sometimes "in abeyance." A defunct title can then be created anew, given to someone else. This was relatively uncommon IRL, but not <em>so</em> uncommon that it would be considered a shocking swerve. For example, as part of some research I have done for a story concept, I went looking for information on the Baron Strange, which is a real, actual title in English nobility! Turns that it had <em>repeatedly</em> broken down over the like 900 years that this title has existed. IIRC, it had twice gone into abeyance, which usually means "our inheritance law doesn't allow any <em>currently living</em> descendants to inherit, but since descendants <em>exist</em> one of their children might inherit" (e.g. all living descendants are female but only males can inherit, so once the ambiguity is resolved <em>someone</em> can claim the title.) The other two cases, it had in fact fallen totally defunct, meaning legit actually <em>no one</em> could inherit because all legitimate descendants of the original title holder died without heirs. These issues once actually led to an accident where a <em>second</em> "Baron Strange" title was created while the other was in a very long abeyance!</p><p></p><p>So, the ultimate answer to your question is that yes, it could be done, but it would in general be done either by direct royal decree (which would upset the aristocracy/nobility, but maybe not enough to start a civil war over it), or be done by waiting until the title actually goes defunct and then creating the King's second son the entirely new 1st Baron Placington, even if the stepmother had been the 19th Baroness Placington or whatever. The first method is clean and neat but suffers the chance of sparking conflict within the nobility; the latter is much more messy from an actual administration standpoint but fully legal in basically all legal systems of vassalage (assuming, as you said, there truly isn't <em>anyone</em> who can legally inherit.)</p><p></p><p>Side note on that: Don't forget that inheritance (especially full cognatic inheritance) usually spreads out a lot over time. If there have been 5 Barons/Baronesses of this title over the years, and each served more or less their full adult life as Baron/ess, then you'd be looking at (for a family merely <em>at</em> replacement) 2⁵=32 descendants that could possibly inherit, and that's only if everyone has exactly 2 kids each. If they have more, quite common in the medieval period when you weren't sure how many of your kids would survive, then that number could easily balloon to multiple dozens, even to hundreds. If the title has been around longer, it could be even more: with only 2.5 average children per generation and 8 generations, you're looking at (roughly) 1500 descendants that could potentially inherit. Even with only two average kids per generation, if the Baroness is my made-up example of the 19th holder of the title, then there would be ~2¹⁹≈500,000 people who could theoretically inherit. Again, not saying it <em>can't</em> happen, just that it would be weird if it did.</p><p></p><p>* "Vassalage" the specific system of distributed administration used in the medieval period which is often glossed over with the inaccurate term "feudalism," which blends vassalage with <em>manorialism</em> in vague and unclear ways.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8962050, member: 6790260"] You'd almost certainly have to deal with some fake claims on the title ("she was the great-granddaughter of my mother's father's sister" etc.—family lines [I]completely[/I] dying out is an uncommon thing, especially when we allow fully cognatic inheritance, that is, when male and female lines are equally valid for inheritance. The problem is, these succession laws were really, [I]really[/I] important to the aristocracy in general back when vassalage* was a big deal. It was a HUGE problem to break the laws of succession, literally enough to trigger whole civil wars if the break was big enough. That doesn't mean no one did it, [I]plenty[/I] of people did, but the idea was that these laws were one of the few protections for the nobility against royals being crappy to them, which was a real concern for a lot of people. That said: if it were in fact actually, provably the case that no living person remained who was descended from the original holder of the title, then [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] is the closest to correct here. Properly speaking, the royal crown did not own [I]that[/I] much land (most of it was seen as belonging to [I]God[/I] and thus merely administered, not truly owned, by the Church), but the Crown reserves the right to [I]create titles,[/I] and any created title that falls into this situation would be considered defunct, or sometimes "in abeyance." A defunct title can then be created anew, given to someone else. This was relatively uncommon IRL, but not [I]so[/I] uncommon that it would be considered a shocking swerve. For example, as part of some research I have done for a story concept, I went looking for information on the Baron Strange, which is a real, actual title in English nobility! Turns that it had [I]repeatedly[/I] broken down over the like 900 years that this title has existed. IIRC, it had twice gone into abeyance, which usually means "our inheritance law doesn't allow any [I]currently living[/I] descendants to inherit, but since descendants [I]exist[/I] one of their children might inherit" (e.g. all living descendants are female but only males can inherit, so once the ambiguity is resolved [I]someone[/I] can claim the title.) The other two cases, it had in fact fallen totally defunct, meaning legit actually [I]no one[/I] could inherit because all legitimate descendants of the original title holder died without heirs. These issues once actually led to an accident where a [I]second[/I] "Baron Strange" title was created while the other was in a very long abeyance! So, the ultimate answer to your question is that yes, it could be done, but it would in general be done either by direct royal decree (which would upset the aristocracy/nobility, but maybe not enough to start a civil war over it), or be done by waiting until the title actually goes defunct and then creating the King's second son the entirely new 1st Baron Placington, even if the stepmother had been the 19th Baroness Placington or whatever. The first method is clean and neat but suffers the chance of sparking conflict within the nobility; the latter is much more messy from an actual administration standpoint but fully legal in basically all legal systems of vassalage (assuming, as you said, there truly isn't [I]anyone[/I] who can legally inherit.) Side note on that: Don't forget that inheritance (especially full cognatic inheritance) usually spreads out a lot over time. If there have been 5 Barons/Baronesses of this title over the years, and each served more or less their full adult life as Baron/ess, then you'd be looking at (for a family merely [I]at[/I] replacement) 2⁵=32 descendants that could possibly inherit, and that's only if everyone has exactly 2 kids each. If they have more, quite common in the medieval period when you weren't sure how many of your kids would survive, then that number could easily balloon to multiple dozens, even to hundreds. If the title has been around longer, it could be even more: with only 2.5 average children per generation and 8 generations, you're looking at (roughly) 1500 descendants that could potentially inherit. Even with only two average kids per generation, if the Baroness is my made-up example of the 19th holder of the title, then there would be ~2¹⁹≈500,000 people who could theoretically inherit. Again, not saying it [I]can't[/I] happen, just that it would be weird if it did. * "Vassalage" the specific system of distributed administration used in the medieval period which is often glossed over with the inaccurate term "feudalism," which blends vassalage with [I]manorialism[/I] in vague and unclear ways. [/QUOTE]
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