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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7583074" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>I would add that the player is <em>obligated</em> to describe what he or she wants to do, just like the DM is <em>obligated</em> to describe the environment and narrate the result of the adventurers's actions (among other things). Describing what he or she wants to do is <em>the player's role and responsibility</em> in this game. I think it's just fine to encourage players to live up to their responsibilities and say what they want to do (approach) and what they hope to achieve (goal).</p><p></p><p>Does this mean a flowery description delivered with incredible acting chops? No, but I would say asking to make an ability check is <em>not</em> a description of what the player wants to do. At best it just implies an approach to a goal and leaves the DM to fill in the blanks. In many games, this means the DM says what the character does which is stepping outside the bounds of the DM's role in the game. I'd argue in many cases it creates a further burden on the DM and sets the stage for disputes about what the character does if the player objects to what the DM established. If the player doesn't shirk his or her responsibility, then this can't happen.</p><p></p><p>Even if an argument for personal responsibility doesn't work, then another argument is that the PC is likely to be more successful by avoiding a fickle d20 wherever possible. I never, ever ask to make a roll in games in which I play. In pickup games outside my own circle, I often encounter groups where players ask to make rolls. My characters are head and shoulders more successful than theirs because I work to remove uncertainty as to the outcome and/or the meaningful consequence of failure rather than take a chance on a d20. So if a player is concerned with achieving success more often than failing, then it's a good strategy to avoid that roll whenever possible.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7583074, member: 97077"] I would add that the player is [I]obligated[/I] to describe what he or she wants to do, just like the DM is [I]obligated[/I] to describe the environment and narrate the result of the adventurers's actions (among other things). Describing what he or she wants to do is [I]the player's role and responsibility[/I] in this game. I think it's just fine to encourage players to live up to their responsibilities and say what they want to do (approach) and what they hope to achieve (goal). Does this mean a flowery description delivered with incredible acting chops? No, but I would say asking to make an ability check is [I]not[/I] a description of what the player wants to do. At best it just implies an approach to a goal and leaves the DM to fill in the blanks. In many games, this means the DM says what the character does which is stepping outside the bounds of the DM's role in the game. I'd argue in many cases it creates a further burden on the DM and sets the stage for disputes about what the character does if the player objects to what the DM established. If the player doesn't shirk his or her responsibility, then this can't happen. Even if an argument for personal responsibility doesn't work, then another argument is that the PC is likely to be more successful by avoiding a fickle d20 wherever possible. I never, ever ask to make a roll in games in which I play. In pickup games outside my own circle, I often encounter groups where players ask to make rolls. My characters are head and shoulders more successful than theirs because I work to remove uncertainty as to the outcome and/or the meaningful consequence of failure rather than take a chance on a d20. So if a player is concerned with achieving success more often than failing, then it's a good strategy to avoid that roll whenever possible. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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