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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bawylie" data-source="post: 7583086" data-attributes="member: 6776133"><p>Here’s how it’s different if I’m your DM. Same setup with the glamoured Wall. </p><p></p><p>PC1: I’m going to climb it. </p><p>DM: ok, how? Free climb? Use your climber’s kit? It looks pretty smooth to you. </p><p>PC1: ok I’ll use my climber’s kit and sink a piton in first as a base. </p><p>DM: great, using your climber’s kit you ascend the wall. As it turns out, it’s not nearly as smooth as it seems to be and you move up rather quickly. Unusually quickly, considering the appearance. </p><p></p><p>PC1: It’s an easy climb, guys.</p><p>PC2: Hang on. Unusually easy, he said. I want to find out more.</p><p>DM: ok what do you do to find out more?</p><p>PC2: Can I roll arcana?</p><p>DM: Well, what are you doing so that arcana applies? Describe how that comes into play.</p><p>PC2: Gotcha. Ok I’m looking for signs of spell craft, feeling for traces of magic, that sort of thing. </p><p>DM: Sounds good. Go ahead and roll intelligence (arcana) or (investigation) since you’re actually feeling. If you get a 15, you’ll know what’s up exactly. If you get a 10, you’ll have an inkling. </p><p>PC2: I’ll use investigation then. (Rolls). I got a 17. </p><p>DM: OK, feeling the Wall, your fingers find numerous purchases, like handholds. It seems someone has put some sort of illusion to hide the handholds. Why, you cannot guess. </p><p></p><p>PC3: someone enchanted this for a reason. I wonder if there are traps. </p><p>PC1: I just climbed it fine!</p><p>PC3: Yeah, but you’re an expert climber. I’m going to check for traps. Magical and mechanical. </p><p>DM: How, exactly?</p><p>PC3: you said it’s got an illusion, so I know just looking at it won’t work. I’ll have to poke around with my tools to see if there are any triggers. </p><p>DM: Alright make an Intelligence check and you can apply either investigation or your thieves kit bonus. If you get a 20 and it’s trapped, you’ll find the trigger and be able to bypass it. If you get a 15, you’ll find the trigger, only. Less than that and you risk setting off any traps. </p><p>PC3: Ok I have double proficiency with the kit, so I roll a 22. </p><p>DM: There is indeed a magical trap. Some of the handholds magically close, trapping any climbers. </p><p></p><p>Or whatever. </p><p></p><p>But note that anybody who just climbed without stating an approach would’ve been caught by the trap. Since I don’t want to use my players’ ignorance against them, I make sure to always ask how they’re doing something, so that I don’t inadvertently trick them or they don’t unknowing stumble into something. They always have to choose to. We’re not going to backtrack to “I would’ve used my kit!” “But you didn’t say so!” “But I would’ve!” And so on. I’m just going to ask, so we’re all clear. </p><p></p><p>It’s my job to give your character a fair shake. I want to avoid ambiguities that result in a bum deal. I once had a dm tell me I couldn’t draw my sword because I’d left it in a dungeon 2 weeks ago (when I dropped it to administer healing). Apparently because I didn’t say I picked it up after, my character didn’t notice it was missing for 2 weeks. Now that’s bull crap. That’s not every dm, either. But it sure as hell won’t be me. I’m gonna clarify with you before the roll.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bawylie, post: 7583086, member: 6776133"] Here’s how it’s different if I’m your DM. Same setup with the glamoured Wall. PC1: I’m going to climb it. DM: ok, how? Free climb? Use your climber’s kit? It looks pretty smooth to you. PC1: ok I’ll use my climber’s kit and sink a piton in first as a base. DM: great, using your climber’s kit you ascend the wall. As it turns out, it’s not nearly as smooth as it seems to be and you move up rather quickly. Unusually quickly, considering the appearance. PC1: It’s an easy climb, guys. PC2: Hang on. Unusually easy, he said. I want to find out more. DM: ok what do you do to find out more? PC2: Can I roll arcana? DM: Well, what are you doing so that arcana applies? Describe how that comes into play. PC2: Gotcha. Ok I’m looking for signs of spell craft, feeling for traces of magic, that sort of thing. DM: Sounds good. Go ahead and roll intelligence (arcana) or (investigation) since you’re actually feeling. If you get a 15, you’ll know what’s up exactly. If you get a 10, you’ll have an inkling. PC2: I’ll use investigation then. (Rolls). I got a 17. DM: OK, feeling the Wall, your fingers find numerous purchases, like handholds. It seems someone has put some sort of illusion to hide the handholds. Why, you cannot guess. PC3: someone enchanted this for a reason. I wonder if there are traps. PC1: I just climbed it fine! PC3: Yeah, but you’re an expert climber. I’m going to check for traps. Magical and mechanical. DM: How, exactly? PC3: you said it’s got an illusion, so I know just looking at it won’t work. I’ll have to poke around with my tools to see if there are any triggers. DM: Alright make an Intelligence check and you can apply either investigation or your thieves kit bonus. If you get a 20 and it’s trapped, you’ll find the trigger and be able to bypass it. If you get a 15, you’ll find the trigger, only. Less than that and you risk setting off any traps. PC3: Ok I have double proficiency with the kit, so I roll a 22. DM: There is indeed a magical trap. Some of the handholds magically close, trapping any climbers. Or whatever. But note that anybody who just climbed without stating an approach would’ve been caught by the trap. Since I don’t want to use my players’ ignorance against them, I make sure to always ask how they’re doing something, so that I don’t inadvertently trick them or they don’t unknowing stumble into something. They always have to choose to. We’re not going to backtrack to “I would’ve used my kit!” “But you didn’t say so!” “But I would’ve!” And so on. I’m just going to ask, so we’re all clear. It’s my job to give your character a fair shake. I want to avoid ambiguities that result in a bum deal. I once had a dm tell me I couldn’t draw my sword because I’d left it in a dungeon 2 weeks ago (when I dropped it to administer healing). Apparently because I didn’t say I picked it up after, my character didn’t notice it was missing for 2 weeks. Now that’s bull crap. That’s not every dm, either. But it sure as hell won’t be me. I’m gonna clarify with you before the roll. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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