Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7583942" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>You've been clear on that. Just like I've been clear that I disagree. I don't see why it would be a big deal, the player has communicated what their intent is. I would no more say "no you can't say what skill you are using" any more than I would tell them they couldn't use a specific skill. </p><p></p><p>To be clear: I don't care if that's what the rules say, if someone asks to make skill check <em>X</em> or if they can use ability <em>Y</em> I allow it. The only exception is if they are trying to do something totally inappropriate. For example there's no way an strength (athletics) check is going to allow them to read a magic book. On the other hand they may be able to justify using Intelligence to do an intimidate check because they know that the NPC is going to be influenced by a superior intellect (although I'd ask for some clarification on details on what they're saying). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep. Still get it. Still disagree. If the NPC was lying, the players know I'd ask for an insight check opposed by the NPC's deception check (potentially with a lot of modifiers). If I don't ask for the insight check, the player knows the NPC is telling the truth. The consequence of automatic success is that the PCs have the ultimate truth detector. </p><p></p><p>As far as "I observe them for signs of lying" vs "I think they're lying can I make an insight check", in either case they've declared that's what they are doing. They just didn't phrase it like you wanted it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why does it matter? The player has communicated that they don't believe the NPC is telling the truth. They're studying them closely, paying attention, whatever an insight check means to that player.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except you just said that you wouldn't accept anything phrased as "I think they're lying can I make an insight check".</p><p></p><p>I'll just repeat one last time. To me, making a skill check is the game mechanic implementation of the PC trying to do something. It's not my job to tell them they can't attempt to climb the sheer wall even if I know they cannot succeed. </p><p></p><p>Back to the OP. I don't to tell my players either directly or by omission of an opposed skill check that an NPC is telling the truth. I may tell them the NPC seems honest. I may remind them they have no reason to doubt this PC. But let them know with 100% certainty that the NPC is telling the truth? Nope. Not my style.</p><p></p><p>So can you stop accusing me of just not understanding your position? I get where you're coming from. I'm not even saying I wouldn't enjoy playing at your table because I have no clue. I understand your position, I just disagree. If that bothers you so much you can always block me like Iserith did because I would never agree that his style on this subject is the one true way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7583942, member: 6801845"] You've been clear on that. Just like I've been clear that I disagree. I don't see why it would be a big deal, the player has communicated what their intent is. I would no more say "no you can't say what skill you are using" any more than I would tell them they couldn't use a specific skill. To be clear: I don't care if that's what the rules say, if someone asks to make skill check [I]X[/I] or if they can use ability [I]Y[/I] I allow it. The only exception is if they are trying to do something totally inappropriate. For example there's no way an strength (athletics) check is going to allow them to read a magic book. On the other hand they may be able to justify using Intelligence to do an intimidate check because they know that the NPC is going to be influenced by a superior intellect (although I'd ask for some clarification on details on what they're saying). Yep. Still get it. Still disagree. If the NPC was lying, the players know I'd ask for an insight check opposed by the NPC's deception check (potentially with a lot of modifiers). If I don't ask for the insight check, the player knows the NPC is telling the truth. The consequence of automatic success is that the PCs have the ultimate truth detector. As far as "I observe them for signs of lying" vs "I think they're lying can I make an insight check", in either case they've declared that's what they are doing. They just didn't phrase it like you wanted it. Why does it matter? The player has communicated that they don't believe the NPC is telling the truth. They're studying them closely, paying attention, whatever an insight check means to that player. Except you just said that you wouldn't accept anything phrased as "I think they're lying can I make an insight check". I'll just repeat one last time. To me, making a skill check is the game mechanic implementation of the PC trying to do something. It's not my job to tell them they can't attempt to climb the sheer wall even if I know they cannot succeed. Back to the OP. I don't to tell my players either directly or by omission of an opposed skill check that an NPC is telling the truth. I may tell them the NPC seems honest. I may remind them they have no reason to doubt this PC. But let them know with 100% certainty that the NPC is telling the truth? Nope. Not my style. So can you stop accusing me of just not understanding your position? I get where you're coming from. I'm not even saying I wouldn't enjoy playing at your table because I have no clue. I understand your position, I just disagree. If that bothers you so much you can always block me like Iserith did because I would never agree that his style on this subject is the one true way. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
Top