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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7586578" data-attributes="member: 6919838">certainly i would agree that we have generatioal differences at play in some cases but i would like to point out.As far as i can see, everyone here is proposing methods of play and describing methods of play which all, everyone, represent The Middle Path as presented in the DMG. if i missed someone, then i am sorry but it seems to me that myself, oofta, hussaar and everyone else here is on board with the parts defined in The Middle Path a d describe using them.Balancing the use of dice against deciding whether or not a task succeeds - check.Encouraging players to strike a balance between relying on bonuses and immersive efforts - check.GM can decide auto-success  - yup (auto-fail too but that wasntl called out in the rule)Good/bad plan - advantage or disad or otherwise influence outcome - check.I have not seen anybody here posting any resolutions used in play that do not fit this model at all.So, to me, this is not about "Are we using Middle path or not" but where we are deciding to place that "balance" between the two methods in actual play. For my games it tends to work like this...Balancing the use of dice against deciding whether or not a task succeeds - check.Outside of the obviously succeeding and failing cases like tie-your-shoes and jump to the moon, i use the auto-success rules in the DMG which let proficient character without disadvantage succeed automatically at easy or below. i also use the PHB defined "failure" to allow partial success with setback frequently to enable a middle ground between pass-fail. I will use passive checks to represent the long-term efforts and actually have a house rule for extended checks where skill should matter. In short, it is frewquent that the die roll is used as much for narrative determination as it is for just simple success-fail. "Your jump across the extra distance did not go as well as you had wished and you fell short, catching yourself on a ledge some 50' down on the cliff face on the other side. So, you did not fall into the pit and you are across but you took a little damage and now have to climb up a ways to get to the ledge."Encouraging players to strike a balance between relying on bonuses and immersive efforts - check.Yup. Absolutely. Immersive and attentive tends to give you a lot more to work with, more ties to others you can call on, tons of opportuinties. When times for uncertainties come up, these will often lead to advantage or disadvantage. Did you interact with the shopkeeper, treat them well, or not, etc? these will matter when it comes time to talking them and others who know them into taking chances at your behest.GM can decide auto-success  - yup (auto-fail too but that wasnt called out in the rule)Covered in the first bullet but yep. matter of fact, as i listed above i use the DMG rule for it to help show the benefit of proficiency as more than just a bonus.  Good/bad plan - advantage or disad or otherwise influence outcome - check.of course. the list for advantage and disadvantage broad cases  in the DMG is a good solid start and it focuses on "actions" and "plan" and "circumstances" - creating a pretty strong balance between those elements and the mechanics.Sometimes, it almost feels like some folks want to claim "the middle path" as "their way" and even somehow include the rules that follow under using Ability Score (major header) as a subset of TMP.But, from what i can see, almost everybody here is choosing a TMP option, just with sometimes widely varying ideas of where that balance point mentioned multiple times can be. To me, my way of thinking, the more i show my players that its me going to decide pass-fail for cases that matter and not their character stats c- both driven by their choices, especially if it is only for some stats for some characters more than for others, the less enjoyment we get in a game where very detailed specifics are chosen and "purchased" etc. if i am going to play a game where the "balance point" puts it at the point where " if we use the character traits, its worse for you" on any strategic sense, that game is gonna be a lot smaller and a lot less detailed and much more narrative based and such - like say ScreenTime or others.</blockquote>

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