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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7586881">I may have phrased it poorly, but I think there's a difference between a merchant/mechanic "wanting to make money" (which is obvious) and the player/customer realizing that this particular merchant/mechanic is being greedy.So let me elaborate a little bit.First, if this is just a normal transaction, and the NPC is just a shop owner with no other role to play in the adventure, then I'm going to signal that to the players so they don't waste time.  (And by "signal" I might mean something along the lines of, "He's just shop owner...he doesn't know anything.")Now, I realize some people don't like that.  They want the platonic ideal of a sandbox, where every NPC is a roleplaying opportunity that may lead to adventure.  I don't like to play in games like that, and I don't run games like that.  Table time is too scarce, and from my experience it's usually one player who wants to engage in a deep conversation with every NPC while everybody else sits around and fiddles with D&D Beyond.   Also, I have very little interest in tracking copper pieces and haggling over prices.  Unless something is going to cost a significant chunk of a character's stash I tend to hand-wave prices: I don't make players account for every mug of ale and night in an inn.  So making skill checks (sorry, iserith, I meant ability checks with skill proficiency modifiers) to haggle over prices just doesn't interest me.Ok, so with that out of the way, let's assume we're talking with an NPC who plays a more active role in the story.  Somebody who, depending on how the interaction with the players go, could affect the outcome.  And that's the core of it for me: will this interaction affect the trajectory of the story in a meaningful way?  If so, then the merchant's...let's say he's a merchant...the merchant's "true intentions" matter.  The players might, during negotiations (which itself, in my game, is a signal that this NPC is relevant) over a price for something, glean that he: - Wants to gouge them - Wants to be highly respected for his products/services - Enjoys haggling for its own sake - Is trying to rush them out the door - Is trying to keep them here - Doesn't want to do the work but won't say so - Is fishing for something other than money - Is lonely and just wants to talkI lost momentum but with a little thought I could keep going.  Do you see how each of those "true intentions" could be a hint as to the 'truth' of what he is saying, without it being a true/false lie detector?  And maybe how using that clue as a basis to decide what to do next is a lot more fun than just rolling an 18, being told he's lying, and acting accordingly?Hopefully what I wrote above addresses those questions/points.As I mentioned in a previous post, this is the perfect place to use straight up dice rolls.  I might do something like, "Ok, it's going to take a few successes with a high DC, and every attempt takes a few minutes, during which I am going to roll to see if the guards stumble upon you.  What do you want to do?"  It's not just make a roll, and if you succeed you find treasure, if you fail you don't.  There's no consequences to that, no trade-off. (And I think the core idea underlying all meaningful games, not just RPGs, is trade-offs.)In fact, just in general I would say that if there's no downside to failing a roll, I would rather not have a roll.  In combat, missing your sword swing is bad.  At the very least there's an opportunity cost: you would have been better off taking the Dodge action.  Or spending Inspiration.  Or whatever.  In fact, in the merchant example above I struggle with having any die roll at all, for exactly that reason.  I might simply give a clue to whoever has the highest Insight.  Or spread them around, if there are several clues.  Just because there's no cost to failure of an Insight check. (And consequences can help mitigate "Can I roll, too?" syndrome.)(This is why I kind of like the idea of a "lie detector" sub-system/mini-game, using a combination of Insight, Investigation, Persuasion, and Deception, which is an intentional attempt to trap somebody in a lie.  It can be done purely mechanically, with dice, preferably over several rounds of rolling, and can give you a binary answer*, but it comes with a trade-off: you can easily anger the NPC.*binary in the sense that you can determine he is lying, or be unable to determine he is lying, but maybe can't 'prove' he is telling the truth.)Yes, that's an issue.  I also have a couple of players who take notes, and I also email around a synopsis before each session.</blockquote>

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