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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7586933"><p>Actually, I wanted you to be even <em>more</em> specific. Like, what is the setup? What's the NPC lying about? Why? But, ok, you made it much easier than that. (If requiring more typing, with 4 scenarios...)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Scenario: they're talking to the estranged sister of an NPC they're trying to find, who claims not to have seen him in years. </p><p>Clue: The DM let the heroes find a letter she wrote to him only months ago.</p><p></p><p>NPC: "No, I haven't seen him in 11 years, ever since (fill in backstory)"</p><p>Player (using clue): "And you haven't tried to contact him in all this time?"</p><p>NPC: "Oh, I've tried to contact him, all right. Just a few months ago I sent a letter to an inn I know he used to frequent, hoping it would get to him. Never heard anything back."</p><p></p><p>The fact that she didn't try to hide the existence of the letter should be a strong hint she isn't lying. And now they have another clue, by asking her which inn she sent the letter to.</p><p></p><p>If the players get stuck, a successful Insight check might prod them with a clue to the clue. "You notice she hasn't said anything about trying to find him, just that she hasn't heard from him."</p><p></p><p>EDIT: And I'll add that [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] is entirely right: the other way you could do this is to generate bonds/flaws/ideals/theoneI'mforgetting and on successful Insight checks reveal those, and should provide hints as to the situation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Why would I try to contact that ungrateful wretch?"</p><p></p><p>(Again, Insight for a clue to a clue.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Going with contact-poison handle on a door for the setup. I still don't know the overall scenario, but here are some hints that could have been dropped</p><p> - On an earlier, similar door, you let them notice the contact poison automatically</p><p> - There is a not-so-fresh corpse in front of the door, with a discoloured hand and froth coming out of its mouth. Looks like it died in agony.</p><p>If this is an important/significant door, where they are likely to be cautious, the hints could have come earlier:</p><p> - The players previously found a small "lab" table with a recipe for contact poison, and some ingredients, including something with a distinct smell (vinegar? ammonia? feces? purple worm slime?)</p><p> - At the door, if somebody says they want to inspect the door, let them catch a faint whiff of vinegar.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>There's too much unsaid here for me, but here are some variants:</p><p> - If finding the trap was the challenge, then I'd let disarming be automatic if they propose anything remotely reasonable sounding. ("Can I wash the poison off?" "Sure.")</p><p> - If finding the trap is easy and disarming the trap was supposed to be the challenge, then I would have used a clue similar to the poison scenario.</p><p> - If there's time pressure...maybe they're being chased by something...then I'd use the roll, or multiple rolls, to determine how long it takes. Maybe combat would even start, and there's the rogue, still making an attempt on each turn (and wishing he had taken the Thief sub-class).</p><p> - I might even use a straight-up Thieves' Tools roll with some kind of consequences. "If you just try to avoid the scything blades you'll make a saving throw. If you disarm and succeed you succeed, but if you fail you'll have to make the same saving throw at disadvantage."</p><p></p><p>Again, the theme is trade-offs. If there's no trade-off, then why roll?</p><p></p><p>This is what I find boring:</p><p>Player: "I'll check to see if the door is trapped."</p><p>DM: "Roll Investigation."</p><p>Player: "17"</p><p>DM: "You find contact poison on the doorknob."</p><p>Player: "I'll try to disarm it."</p><p>DM: "Roll Thieves' Tools"</p><p>Player: "8"</p><p>DM: "You blow it. Make a save versus poison..."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7586933"] Actually, I wanted you to be even [I]more[/I] specific. Like, what is the setup? What's the NPC lying about? Why? But, ok, you made it much easier than that. (If requiring more typing, with 4 scenarios...) Scenario: they're talking to the estranged sister of an NPC they're trying to find, who claims not to have seen him in years. Clue: The DM let the heroes find a letter she wrote to him only months ago. NPC: "No, I haven't seen him in 11 years, ever since (fill in backstory)" Player (using clue): "And you haven't tried to contact him in all this time?" NPC: "Oh, I've tried to contact him, all right. Just a few months ago I sent a letter to an inn I know he used to frequent, hoping it would get to him. Never heard anything back." The fact that she didn't try to hide the existence of the letter should be a strong hint she isn't lying. And now they have another clue, by asking her which inn she sent the letter to. If the players get stuck, a successful Insight check might prod them with a clue to the clue. "You notice she hasn't said anything about trying to find him, just that she hasn't heard from him." EDIT: And I'll add that [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] is entirely right: the other way you could do this is to generate bonds/flaws/ideals/theoneI'mforgetting and on successful Insight checks reveal those, and should provide hints as to the situation. "Why would I try to contact that ungrateful wretch?" (Again, Insight for a clue to a clue.) Going with contact-poison handle on a door for the setup. I still don't know the overall scenario, but here are some hints that could have been dropped - On an earlier, similar door, you let them notice the contact poison automatically - There is a not-so-fresh corpse in front of the door, with a discoloured hand and froth coming out of its mouth. Looks like it died in agony. If this is an important/significant door, where they are likely to be cautious, the hints could have come earlier: - The players previously found a small "lab" table with a recipe for contact poison, and some ingredients, including something with a distinct smell (vinegar? ammonia? feces? purple worm slime?) - At the door, if somebody says they want to inspect the door, let them catch a faint whiff of vinegar. There's too much unsaid here for me, but here are some variants: - If finding the trap was the challenge, then I'd let disarming be automatic if they propose anything remotely reasonable sounding. ("Can I wash the poison off?" "Sure.") - If finding the trap is easy and disarming the trap was supposed to be the challenge, then I would have used a clue similar to the poison scenario. - If there's time pressure...maybe they're being chased by something...then I'd use the roll, or multiple rolls, to determine how long it takes. Maybe combat would even start, and there's the rogue, still making an attempt on each turn (and wishing he had taken the Thief sub-class). - I might even use a straight-up Thieves' Tools roll with some kind of consequences. "If you just try to avoid the scything blades you'll make a saving throw. If you disarm and succeed you succeed, but if you fail you'll have to make the same saving throw at disadvantage." Again, the theme is trade-offs. If there's no trade-off, then why roll? This is what I find boring: Player: "I'll check to see if the door is trapped." DM: "Roll Investigation." Player: "17" DM: "You find contact poison on the doorknob." Player: "I'll try to disarm it." DM: "Roll Thieves' Tools" Player: "8" DM: "You blow it. Make a save versus poison..." [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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