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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7587130" data-attributes="member: 22779">See, that third paragraph is where I leave the train.  You are claiming "middle path" here, but, to me, it's the DM's judgement as to whether or not a skill check should be made.  And the reason he's forcing (not granting, because the players don't actually want a skill check) is because the DM isn't convinced that the players have removed uncertainty.  The only way the players can remove that uncertainty is to convince the DM.Thus, we're right back to gaming the DM.  And, frankly, the notion that the players and the DM are playing fundamentally different styles seems like a big warning sign to me as well that will, IME, lead to a lot of frustration at the table.  I prefer everyone at the table to be singing from the same hymn book and all playing the same style.</blockquote>