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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7587325"><p>I don't think this actually conflicts with what we're saying. In fact, I strongly believe in "roll then narrate" AND "narrate then roll". And I'm not sure I can explain exactly where the line is between the two, but (as I love to say) the existence of dawn does not disprove the difference between day and night. If a players said, "I'm going to pretend to stumble, then pick up sand and throw it in the bandit's eyes, then attack while he's distracted!" I'd let him roll, and if he hits he's free to describe that as being successful (roll-then-narrate). If I've introduced a particularly challenging monster that I've described as having especially sensitive eyes, and described the fine, powdery sand, then I'm going to give him advantage (or something) on the roll (narrate-then-roll).</p><p></p><p>One thing I don't believe you have answered, Hussar, is my hypothetical scenario about the players that just want to sit in the tavern...in the sense that they don't actually narrate where they go and who they talk to and what they search...and just want to roll Investigation to solve the mystery without having to describe any actions on their part. I'm intentionally choosing an extreme case, of course, but that seems to fit the description of how you play: you aren't requiring the <em>players</em> to figure out likely leads, you are letting their <em>characters</em> do it.</p><p></p><p>I don't think you would actually do this (would you?!?!) and if not, why not?</p><p></p><p>Is it possible we play the same way, but we just draw the line in different places?</p><p></p><p>EDIT: And maybe the difference, now that I think about it, is that the players are free to embellish the world with descriptions of their own, but doing so will not gain them mechanical advantages. If they want to use the descriptions provided by the DM they are more likely to gain the advantage. That probably doesn't provide a definitive answer in all cases, but it's closer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7587325"] I don't think this actually conflicts with what we're saying. In fact, I strongly believe in "roll then narrate" AND "narrate then roll". And I'm not sure I can explain exactly where the line is between the two, but (as I love to say) the existence of dawn does not disprove the difference between day and night. If a players said, "I'm going to pretend to stumble, then pick up sand and throw it in the bandit's eyes, then attack while he's distracted!" I'd let him roll, and if he hits he's free to describe that as being successful (roll-then-narrate). If I've introduced a particularly challenging monster that I've described as having especially sensitive eyes, and described the fine, powdery sand, then I'm going to give him advantage (or something) on the roll (narrate-then-roll). One thing I don't believe you have answered, Hussar, is my hypothetical scenario about the players that just want to sit in the tavern...in the sense that they don't actually narrate where they go and who they talk to and what they search...and just want to roll Investigation to solve the mystery without having to describe any actions on their part. I'm intentionally choosing an extreme case, of course, but that seems to fit the description of how you play: you aren't requiring the [I]players[/I] to figure out likely leads, you are letting their [I]characters[/I] do it. I don't think you would actually do this (would you?!?!) and if not, why not? Is it possible we play the same way, but we just draw the line in different places? EDIT: And maybe the difference, now that I think about it, is that the players are free to embellish the world with descriptions of their own, but doing so will not gain them mechanical advantages. If they want to use the descriptions provided by the DM they are more likely to gain the advantage. That probably doesn't provide a definitive answer in all cases, but it's closer. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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