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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bawylie" data-source="post: 7587399" data-attributes="member: 6776133"><p>I’m afraid I don’t understand most of your post. I’ll attempt to address what I do understand. </p><p></p><p>I’m more concerned with success/fail of a stated action than of a check. To me, a check is a process by which the outcome of an action can be determined. The check itself is not anything that is happening in the game world - it’s a game process happening outside the game world, the result of which determines the outcome of the in-game action (in cases where the DM cannot make that determination themselves). </p><p></p><p>Even in combat, I adjudicate the player’s actions to see whether dice are even required. I think everyone must. Surely “I rage” is an action that doesn’t require a check. Likewise, taking in-game actions to set up a Sure-Thing (in my game we call this “check-mate”) is an auto-success that bypasses the process. (By way of example, I had a player take an enemy captain hostage and put a dagger to their throat. By the game rules, that dagger doing 1d4+2 could never kill that captain outright, regardless of the die roll. But that’s dumb! So the judgment kicks in and I rule that captain is check-mated. The player can auto-kill that captain if they choose to do so). </p><p></p><p>Finally as to whether the DM “puts in” solutions, I can only say I don’t put in ANY solutions to obstacles. Any player’s approach may be a valid/possible, invalid/impossible, or automatically successful. But I won’t know what to set the DC at (if at all) until after I hear how a player sets about overcoming that obstacle. So for me, declaring “I’m going to make an insight check” isn’t a sufficient declaration. I’d like clarification. What do you hope to find out? How are you finding it out? If you just rolled and I didn’t give you anything close to what you intended as a result, you might reasonably feel that was a waste of time or that your investment/action is of little value. By clarifying before the roll, I can at least ensure I’ve faithfully carried out what you proposed when I narrate the result of the roll. </p><p></p><p>Like if you rolled a 22 and I said “He’s a lecherous NPC motivated by sensual pleasure” you might be like “well, great but I was trying to find out if he’s working for the mob.” </p><p></p><p>To estimate, I would say 15-25% of actions taken in game result in automatic success or automatic failure (although in the case of auto-fail I usually say “your character knows this won’t work - you want to try something else?”). The remaining 75% of actions are usually uncertain enough to require checks. However, that includes combat. Out of combat id estimate it’s closer to 50/50.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bawylie, post: 7587399, member: 6776133"] I’m afraid I don’t understand most of your post. I’ll attempt to address what I do understand. I’m more concerned with success/fail of a stated action than of a check. To me, a check is a process by which the outcome of an action can be determined. The check itself is not anything that is happening in the game world - it’s a game process happening outside the game world, the result of which determines the outcome of the in-game action (in cases where the DM cannot make that determination themselves). Even in combat, I adjudicate the player’s actions to see whether dice are even required. I think everyone must. Surely “I rage” is an action that doesn’t require a check. Likewise, taking in-game actions to set up a Sure-Thing (in my game we call this “check-mate”) is an auto-success that bypasses the process. (By way of example, I had a player take an enemy captain hostage and put a dagger to their throat. By the game rules, that dagger doing 1d4+2 could never kill that captain outright, regardless of the die roll. But that’s dumb! So the judgment kicks in and I rule that captain is check-mated. The player can auto-kill that captain if they choose to do so). Finally as to whether the DM “puts in” solutions, I can only say I don’t put in ANY solutions to obstacles. Any player’s approach may be a valid/possible, invalid/impossible, or automatically successful. But I won’t know what to set the DC at (if at all) until after I hear how a player sets about overcoming that obstacle. So for me, declaring “I’m going to make an insight check” isn’t a sufficient declaration. I’d like clarification. What do you hope to find out? How are you finding it out? If you just rolled and I didn’t give you anything close to what you intended as a result, you might reasonably feel that was a waste of time or that your investment/action is of little value. By clarifying before the roll, I can at least ensure I’ve faithfully carried out what you proposed when I narrate the result of the roll. Like if you rolled a 22 and I said “He’s a lecherous NPC motivated by sensual pleasure” you might be like “well, great but I was trying to find out if he’s working for the mob.” To estimate, I would say 15-25% of actions taken in game result in automatic success or automatic failure (although in the case of auto-fail I usually say “your character knows this won’t work - you want to try something else?”). The remaining 75% of actions are usually uncertain enough to require checks. However, that includes combat. Out of combat id estimate it’s closer to 50/50. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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