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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7588131" data-attributes="member: 6801228">This is like saying Perception isn't used to oppose Stealth because the DM can just set a flat DC. Technically true, but talking beside the point instead of addressing it. When an opposed deception roll is used, it is default of Deception vs Insight. I think most players would realize the situation where Insight is impossible. Such as trying to Insight a recording or a letter.But, to get to a question that might have an answer. If they tried, and there was no ambiguity because it is too easy. What do you tell them? Do you tell them no roll is necessary and just leave it at that, or do you tell them that no roll is necessary because they can easily tell? I've had times I've needed to tell players "No, the letter isn't lying to you" when they try and use Insight in a manner where it does not apply, but I let them know why there isn't a roll necessary, which means they either know it is impossible to tell or they succeed. And succeeding by realizing it is impossible is... kind of weird. .See, I think you stopped the conversation too late.This would get me frustrated. It reads like a "power play" on the part of the DM. They want to force me to say things in a certain wayI know this is sarcasm, and it is quite well done too, but it does lead me to a good point on DM presentation. For an 8th level rogue with prof to get an 11... they had to roll low. Player knows it, I know it. So, while narrating the result I don't say "No you failed" I'd say something more like "You're tired of this dungeon, and while you put in a good show of looking you only really glance at the handle while thinking about the fat piles of loot in your future."We relied on the dice, and the dice tell us the rogue under-performed. So I come up with the reason why they lapsed in that moment. Now, I also wouldn't have gotten to that point, because they said "I wipe it with a cloth" and action no player of mine has ever thought of, and that would wipe the poison off onto the cloth. And, since this poison was potent enough to work even if the player is wearing gloves or gauntlets (yeah, contact poison handles actually would rarely work, because most people would be wearing leather gloves) then they get the check then. Or, they find the poison and no check is needed to know the handle had poison on it.</blockquote>

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