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General Tabletop Discussion
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7588409" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>Thanks for the response.</p><p></p><p>I may have not been completely clear on what I meant. And, yep, sometimes I'm overly sarcastic. As far as a PC asking to make a skill check, I don't see why it's a big deal. I also have no idea how you would respond to someone new at your table if they say "I make ___ skill check" because you've never really said as far as I remember other than that somehow it would never happen.</p><p></p><p>There's a lot here, so just to summarize the point of the jewelry heist scene was multiple. The shopkeeper provided a great deal of info in a natural conversation. The perpetrator was able to get past all the locks and wards, may not have had a good way of knowing when the shopkeeper went to bed (no one left the building). There probably would have been some other cookie crumb to follow had the conversation gone past that point, like the fact that he only leaves the shop for his visits to The Red Head League meetings because I'm using Arthur Conan Doyle as an inspiration. In addition, it just makes sense to me that the group would want to talk to him. If they question people up and down the street, that may be hand-waved but the shopkeeper is central enough to get his moment in the spotlight and not just a handout.</p><p></p><p>I'm not going to argue about the insight check any more. Unless I exclusively use passive insight (I don't) if I don't call for it the players know the shopkeeper is not trying to be deceptive whether they acknowledge or even consciously recognize it. If he shopkeeper was trained in deception but a PC wins the contest, no one has stated that it's an automatic "he's lying, roll for initiative". I'd probably say "he's hiding something" or "there's something suspicious about his behavior". Maybe he keeps glancing at a spot on the floor where there's a loose brick where he hid the jewels.</p><p></p><p>A successful insight check uncovering an attempt at deception is not proof. It's just a bread crumb.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd be perfectly okay with the player saying "I do an intimidation check" in which case I'd let him know he doesn't get advantage. If he had already rolled with advantage I'd ask him to roll again. This is where I simply don't care how a person states their intent and action where you seem to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bluntly, I don't remember seeing a description of removing a trap that I've seen on this thread from the descriptive folks made a mention of a die roll. In fact the concept being pushed has been summed up as "only use dice as a last resort".</p><p></p><p>For example:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now, if you're saying you use passive numbers extensively, that's fine. Depending on the situation I will do that as well. Sometimes that orcish encampment will have such poor quality traps that success is automatic. But I find people often like the randomness of rolling a die. Or maybe that's just me when my character is a halfling who has the "lucky" feat. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7588409, member: 6801845"] Thanks for the response. I may have not been completely clear on what I meant. And, yep, sometimes I'm overly sarcastic. As far as a PC asking to make a skill check, I don't see why it's a big deal. I also have no idea how you would respond to someone new at your table if they say "I make ___ skill check" because you've never really said as far as I remember other than that somehow it would never happen. There's a lot here, so just to summarize the point of the jewelry heist scene was multiple. The shopkeeper provided a great deal of info in a natural conversation. The perpetrator was able to get past all the locks and wards, may not have had a good way of knowing when the shopkeeper went to bed (no one left the building). There probably would have been some other cookie crumb to follow had the conversation gone past that point, like the fact that he only leaves the shop for his visits to The Red Head League meetings because I'm using Arthur Conan Doyle as an inspiration. In addition, it just makes sense to me that the group would want to talk to him. If they question people up and down the street, that may be hand-waved but the shopkeeper is central enough to get his moment in the spotlight and not just a handout. I'm not going to argue about the insight check any more. Unless I exclusively use passive insight (I don't) if I don't call for it the players know the shopkeeper is not trying to be deceptive whether they acknowledge or even consciously recognize it. If he shopkeeper was trained in deception but a PC wins the contest, no one has stated that it's an automatic "he's lying, roll for initiative". I'd probably say "he's hiding something" or "there's something suspicious about his behavior". Maybe he keeps glancing at a spot on the floor where there's a loose brick where he hid the jewels. A successful insight check uncovering an attempt at deception is not proof. It's just a bread crumb. I'd be perfectly okay with the player saying "I do an intimidation check" in which case I'd let him know he doesn't get advantage. If he had already rolled with advantage I'd ask him to roll again. This is where I simply don't care how a person states their intent and action where you seem to. Bluntly, I don't remember seeing a description of removing a trap that I've seen on this thread from the descriptive folks made a mention of a die roll. In fact the concept being pushed has been summed up as "only use dice as a last resort". For example: Now, if you're saying you use passive numbers extensively, that's fine. Depending on the situation I will do that as well. Sometimes that orcish encampment will have such poor quality traps that success is automatic. But I find people often like the randomness of rolling a die. Or maybe that's just me when my character is a halfling who has the "lucky" feat. :hmm: [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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