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General Tabletop Discussion
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7588825"><p>Yes, exactly.</p><p></p><p>You are describing 3e/4e "traps", and that's why you're stuck with this "players must use a skill and roll a certain DC to get past my speed bump".</p><p></p><p>We probably bear some of the responsibility by trying to respond to your descriptions of old-school traps with "goal and method" solutions. Perhaps instead we should have emphasized that we try to avoid sprinkling random, un-signaled traps around.</p><p></p><p>But instead I'm going to jump right back into the pit...</p><p></p><p>In the case of your combination lock: you are describing a kind of "gotcha". Without describing how the combination disarms the trap, and saying they must enter the combination, you are precluding any other solution. </p><p></p><p>But let's say we've got some more specificity to this trap. For example, let's say the combination is to a lock, and if the lock comes off the two glass vials (that when crushed and mixed produce a cloud of poison gas) can be safely removed, then a number of other solutions are possible:</p><p> - They could pour acid on the lock (maybe they recently killed an acidic monster)</p><p> - They could use magic to transmute the glass vials into steel</p><p> - The could use other magic to freeze the components of the vials</p><p></p><p>Maybe you'd require a skill check on some of those solutions (handling monster acid safely?) maybe not. But the point is that when they propose a method, you can either say, "Awesome. That works." or, if you think the outcome is uncertain, ask for an ability roll with a possible skill proficiency modifier.</p><p></p><p>And maybe they don't propose any of those ideas, and decide to try to crack the combination. Then, sure, I might call for some kind of check. Maybe straight Intelligence if the Wizard says he is going to use math, or a sleight-of-hand check if the rogue says he is going to see if he can feel the tumblers clicking. </p><p></p><p>But if you just describe it as "A trap that has a combination that must be entered correctly by rolling 18 or higher on a (something) check to disarm the trap" then, yeah, you aren't really leaving your players any other options. You are describing an unavoidable obstacle/speed bump, and I can see why it feels like "bypassing" it if the players won't play the way you want them to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7588825"] Yes, exactly. You are describing 3e/4e "traps", and that's why you're stuck with this "players must use a skill and roll a certain DC to get past my speed bump". We probably bear some of the responsibility by trying to respond to your descriptions of old-school traps with "goal and method" solutions. Perhaps instead we should have emphasized that we try to avoid sprinkling random, un-signaled traps around. But instead I'm going to jump right back into the pit... In the case of your combination lock: you are describing a kind of "gotcha". Without describing how the combination disarms the trap, and saying they must enter the combination, you are precluding any other solution. But let's say we've got some more specificity to this trap. For example, let's say the combination is to a lock, and if the lock comes off the two glass vials (that when crushed and mixed produce a cloud of poison gas) can be safely removed, then a number of other solutions are possible: - They could pour acid on the lock (maybe they recently killed an acidic monster) - They could use magic to transmute the glass vials into steel - The could use other magic to freeze the components of the vials Maybe you'd require a skill check on some of those solutions (handling monster acid safely?) maybe not. But the point is that when they propose a method, you can either say, "Awesome. That works." or, if you think the outcome is uncertain, ask for an ability roll with a possible skill proficiency modifier. And maybe they don't propose any of those ideas, and decide to try to crack the combination. Then, sure, I might call for some kind of check. Maybe straight Intelligence if the Wizard says he is going to use math, or a sleight-of-hand check if the rogue says he is going to see if he can feel the tumblers clicking. But if you just describe it as "A trap that has a combination that must be entered correctly by rolling 18 or higher on a (something) check to disarm the trap" then, yeah, you aren't really leaving your players any other options. You are describing an unavoidable obstacle/speed bump, and I can see why it feels like "bypassing" it if the players won't play the way you want them to. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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