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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7589364">That was a really long post, but I'm only going to address the above.When some of us talk about consequences we mean, pretty much by definition &quot;consequences worse than having done nothing at all.&quot;&nbsp; In other words: risk.The consequences you are talking about (not knowing the information) are the same whether you fail or don't try, so that's not really a consequence.And the reason (or one of the reasons) consequences are important is because you...or we, anyway...want rolling dice to be a last resort.&nbsp; When you can't solve the problem, you put yourself in the hands of fate.Example consequences:&nbsp;- If you fail at finding a trap, it goes off (or perhaps you end up holding the trigger down and are stuck; something of that nature)&nbsp;- If you fail at disarming a trap, it goes off and you have disadvantage on the saving throw&nbsp;- If you fail at &quot;lie detection&quot; (whoo boy) the subject knows you don't believe them.&nbsp; Or maybe you get information that's 100% opposite of the truth.&nbsp;- If you fail at jumping the chasm...well, that one is self explanatory&nbsp;- If you fail at picking pockets, the subject catches you- If you fail at tracking quarry, you end up following the wrong spoor and wasting time.&nbsp; Or worse.Actually, let me expand on that last one.&nbsp; This isn't, &quot;We will try to track the orcs.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Okay roll.&quot;&nbsp; It's more like: &quot;We will try to track the orcs.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Ok, you follow them for about an hour, until you get to a place that the tracks are muddled, and some go west toward a hill and some go north toward the river valley. What do you do?&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Ummm...jeez I guess I'l just try to figure out which set of tracks looks like it might have a female human among them. I'm proficient in Survival...&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Ok, I'm going to need a Survival roll, then.&quot;In all of those cases the consequence of failure leaves you in a worse state than before the roll.&nbsp; Which, besides encouraging solutions that don't require rolls, also limits &quot;can I roll too?&quot; syndrome.Standard DisclaimerI'm not saying you have to play this way, or that if you don't you are having badwrongfun.&nbsp; Just trying to explain what some of us mean when we talk about meaningful consequences for failure, and the game state changing after a roll.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7589364"] That was a really long post, but I'm only going to address the above. When some of us talk about consequences we mean, pretty much by definition "consequences worse than having done nothing at all." In other words: risk. The consequences you are talking about (not knowing the information) are the same whether you fail or don't try, so that's not really a consequence. And the reason (or one of the reasons) consequences are important is because you...or we, anyway...want rolling dice to be a last resort. When you can't solve the problem, you put yourself in the hands of fate. Example consequences: - If you fail at finding a trap, it goes off (or perhaps you end up holding the trigger down and are stuck; something of that nature) - If you fail at disarming a trap, it goes off and you have disadvantage on the saving throw - If you fail at "lie detection" (whoo boy) the subject knows you don't believe them. Or maybe you get information that's 100% opposite of the truth. - If you fail at jumping the chasm...well, that one is self explanatory - If you fail at picking pockets, the subject catches you - If you fail at tracking quarry, you end up following the wrong spoor and wasting time. Or worse. Actually, let me expand on that last one. This isn't, "We will try to track the orcs." "Okay roll." It's more like: "We will try to track the orcs." "Ok, you follow them for about an hour, until you get to a place that the tracks are muddled, and some go west toward a hill and some go north toward the river valley. What do you do?" "Ummm...jeez I guess I'l just try to figure out which set of tracks looks like it might have a female human among them. I'm proficient in Survival..." "Ok, I'm going to need a Survival roll, then." In all of those cases the consequence of failure leaves you in a worse state than before the roll. Which, besides encouraging solutions that don't require rolls, also limits "can I roll too?" syndrome. [B]Standard Disclaimer[/B] I'm not saying you have to play this way, or that if you don't you are having badwrongfun. Just trying to explain what some of us mean when we talk about meaningful consequences for failure, and the game state changing after a roll. [/QUOTE]

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