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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7589922" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I can only speak for my own approach - and to reiterate my earlier disclosure, I'm not playing 5e (although some people in this thread - especially [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION], if I've understood properly - use a similar approach in 5e). I use a broadly similar approach in 4e, Cortex+ Heroic, and Burning Wheel. (Prince Valiant doesn't really involve knowledge/perception checks, so this issue hasn't come up; and Classic Traveller is a bit different too as I posted not far upthread.)</p><p></p><p>Your examples seem to take it as a given that <em>the fiction already contains an answer</em> - that there is an ambush, or that the truth of the situation is such-and-such.</p><p></p><p>But I'm using these checks to establish the fiction. An example, not too far upthread, is of the search for the mace. The check fails, and so the PCs discover something they didn't want to be true (namely, that the brother was an evil manufacturer of cursed black arrows).</p><p></p><p>If the players declare that they are trying to ascertain whether or not an ambush is behind a door, then there will already be some context in play that makes ambushes a salient stake. A successful check might mean the PCs learn there is no one behind the door; or perhaps - depending on context - allow them to get the drop rather than be ambushed. A failed check would have the opposite sort of outcome.</p><p></p><p>There's no <em>lying</em> involved, because what's being established is the fiction itself, not simply PC beliefs about the situation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7589922, member: 42582"] I can only speak for my own approach - and to reiterate my earlier disclosure, I'm not playing 5e (although some people in this thread - especially [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION], if I've understood properly - use a similar approach in 5e). I use a broadly similar approach in 4e, Cortex+ Heroic, and Burning Wheel. (Prince Valiant doesn't really involve knowledge/perception checks, so this issue hasn't come up; and Classic Traveller is a bit different too as I posted not far upthread.) Your examples seem to take it as a given that [I]the fiction already contains an answer[/I] - that there is an ambush, or that the truth of the situation is such-and-such. But I'm using these checks to establish the fiction. An example, not too far upthread, is of the search for the mace. The check fails, and so the PCs discover something they didn't want to be true (namely, that the brother was an evil manufacturer of cursed black arrows). If the players declare that they are trying to ascertain whether or not an ambush is behind a door, then there will already be some context in play that makes ambushes a salient stake. A successful check might mean the PCs learn there is no one behind the door; or perhaps - depending on context - allow them to get the drop rather than be ambushed. A failed check would have the opposite sort of outcome. There's no [I]lying[/I] involved, because what's being established is the fiction itself, not simply PC beliefs about the situation. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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