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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bawylie" data-source="post: 7590189" data-attributes="member: 6776133">The character/chargen stuff comes up when interacting with the game’s difficulty - not its challenges. In that same scenario, it may well have been that the adventurers did NOT place the bottles in the correct place at all and instead attempted to force the door. If so, THEN Hans the Dwarf’s prodigious Strength would have been front and center - trying (by way of a Strength check) to overcome the door’s DC. How about this? There is a mystery. It has a correct answer. You’re presented with the central question and tasked with figuring it out. Maybe a person was killed or a treasure was stolen. Looking at the scene, you may take a guess at what happened and if you hit an Intelligence check of DC 30, you’d get it exactly right. Or if you just said the answer and got it exactly right, that’d work too. But if you can’t hit that DC 30, you decide to do some investigation.You find a handful of clues that give evidence about what happened. Each clue you find drops the DC by 6. After a couple clues, you (player) may have enough info to just guess the right answer. But maybe you’re not sure, so your character puts the clue together and hazards a guess (goal: solve mystery. Approach: by reviewing the evidence and deducing the likely solution). You’ve got two clues so the DC is now 18. Your character has +2 INT and training in Investigation. You might make this check. But say you fail. You continue investigating and grab 3 more clues. Now you have the answer and know for sure what happened. This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. If you’ve figured out a surefire way past an obstacle, there isn’t a need to roll a check. If you’ve got a pretty good (but not fail-proof) way past an obstacle, you probably need an ability check. Maybe you take some precautions so that you make the ability check on the most favorable of possible terms. That’s alright. And maybe you put in a bunch of work and arrive at the fail-proof way past the obstacle (as  [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION] ‘s group did). Any way past an obstacle may be valid. Some ways carry greater or lower chances of success, including 0% and 100%. Your super smart investigator might make the DC 30 INT (investigation) check. Maybe you, a super smart player, already figured it out! Or maybe both you and your character need some hints before either of you try.  In any case, there’s more than one way to skin this cat. (Two soldiers guard a door or whatever. One always lies and one always tells the truth. What’s the DC to determine whether a guard is actually telling the truth? Is there a fail-proof way to determine which one is telling the truth?).Edit: spelling</blockquote>

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