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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7590220"><p>This wasn't mean as a "don't respond if you're just going to argue" caveat; I was really just trying to signal that I'm tired of arguing with those who just feel like arguing. But I do see your point and that was probably an unnecessary precursor. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The difference between your escape room and this scenario...or one in a similar vein...is exactly what I replied to DM Dave: your escape room really does have one (or several) fixed solutions. The escape room doesn't respond and adapt to creative ideas by the participants. It <em>is</em> a case of mother-may-I.</p><p></p><p>Tiny but illustrative example: when the player announced that he was putting the bottles in those specific spots, I really wasn't listening to whether he got the right numbers. He may have read his notes wrong, or taken his notes wrong. I didn't care if he clicked the right pixels; that wasn't the point at all. Presumably in your escape room you have to also get the numbers right.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's true that in the parts I described, no special character skills or personality traits were necessary, or even invoked, to put the final pieces of the puzzle together. But those distinctions factored into the story leading up to it. It was the Wizard, who used Investigation and Arcana, who uncovered the clues. And in rescuing the lady they all used both their mechanical abilities and their personalities. Likewise with everything that led to the gift of the wine.</p><p></p><p>And, as @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6776133" target="_blank">Bawylie</a></u></strong></em> pointed out, if they had "solved" the problem in another way it might have relied more heavily on specific attributes/skills.</p><p></p><p>It's funny that you compare this approach to a board game, because I feel exactly the same way about the "I roll Perception to look for secret doors" approach. Many posters talk about "challenging the character not the player" but that seems to be a euphemism for "challenging the player to build an effective character and knowing when to invoke abilities." Maybe a card game is a better comparison that a board game, for it seems to be quite analogous to the challenge of building and playing an effective deck in M:tG. Would you call that "challenging the deck not the player"? </p><p></p><p>Simply having different options, and different strengths and weaknesses, from player to player is not what sets RPGs apart from other games.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7590220"] This wasn't mean as a "don't respond if you're just going to argue" caveat; I was really just trying to signal that I'm tired of arguing with those who just feel like arguing. But I do see your point and that was probably an unnecessary precursor. The difference between your escape room and this scenario...or one in a similar vein...is exactly what I replied to DM Dave: your escape room really does have one (or several) fixed solutions. The escape room doesn't respond and adapt to creative ideas by the participants. It [I]is[/I] a case of mother-may-I. Tiny but illustrative example: when the player announced that he was putting the bottles in those specific spots, I really wasn't listening to whether he got the right numbers. He may have read his notes wrong, or taken his notes wrong. I didn't care if he clicked the right pixels; that wasn't the point at all. Presumably in your escape room you have to also get the numbers right. It's true that in the parts I described, no special character skills or personality traits were necessary, or even invoked, to put the final pieces of the puzzle together. But those distinctions factored into the story leading up to it. It was the Wizard, who used Investigation and Arcana, who uncovered the clues. And in rescuing the lady they all used both their mechanical abilities and their personalities. Likewise with everything that led to the gift of the wine. And, as @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6776133"]Bawylie[/URL][/U][/B][/I] pointed out, if they had "solved" the problem in another way it might have relied more heavily on specific attributes/skills. It's funny that you compare this approach to a board game, because I feel exactly the same way about the "I roll Perception to look for secret doors" approach. Many posters talk about "challenging the character not the player" but that seems to be a euphemism for "challenging the player to build an effective character and knowing when to invoke abilities." Maybe a card game is a better comparison that a board game, for it seems to be quite analogous to the challenge of building and playing an effective deck in M:tG. Would you call that "challenging the deck not the player"? Simply having different options, and different strengths and weaknesses, from player to player is not what sets RPGs apart from other games. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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