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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7591631" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>Personally I wouldn't do anything all that differently. If the player says they're checking the door for traps, they're checking it for all sorts of traps. I'm also going to assume they know what they're doing and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on the approach. If they're trying to notice something out of the ordinary or listen at the door, then they're going to catch anything a perception check would catch.</p><p></p><p>BTW, I do encourage people to take a more narrative approach, but much like the DMG talks about style when doing RP I don't care how a player states their actions as long as it's clear. I'd say it's clear at least 80% of the time and if it's not I ask for a clarification.</p><p></p><p>But this is not a new opinion for me. I've never liked the "tell me how you..." even back in ye olden AD&D days. I'm not a thief, my PC is. My PC knows how to safely check a door for traps, I don't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're the one so dead set that there must be a setback before a PC can attempt to do something, not me. If someone tries to climb the wall that can't be climbed, they may not realize it couldn't be climbed until they tried. If an NPC is telling the truth, they'll probably get a "they seem to be telling the truth". When it comes to traps and whatnot, there definitely can be serious setbacks. Or if they need to climb a cliff and falling could be deadly of course.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Depending on the campaign and group, yes I promote a sense of paranoia. In other campaigns, not so much. In a campaign of political intrigue, not knowing who you can trust, paranoia is just one of many tools in the toolkit.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My point is this: If someone says "I'm a bit paranoid about this alley, I look cautiously for an ambush before I enter. Can I get a perception check?" I'm going to tell them about the trap on the ground even though it's not an ambush. If someone is using insight (however invoked) because they believe someone is lying, they're paying close attention to the person. They may pick up emotions other then deception such as fear, love, envy, any number of hints and clues not related to lying. In those cases I think the goal is kind of meaningless. If the goal is not obvious I ask for clarification.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I've stated before, if people think their PCs would be paranoid about a trap they get passive checks in exchange for moving more slowly because they're being cautious. If they're particularly paranoid because they want to open a chest or jewelry box because they're objects that would be logically trapped then they can roll and use the higher of their passive or the roll. But yeah, in my games there's not going to be a neon sign. Then again doors that get used all the time aren't going to be trapped either because that would just be dumb IMHO. Obviously using passive values does mean that there will be times when someone's passive is so high they detect every trap in which case I'll just narrate it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7591631, member: 6801845"] Personally I wouldn't do anything all that differently. If the player says they're checking the door for traps, they're checking it for all sorts of traps. I'm also going to assume they know what they're doing and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on the approach. If they're trying to notice something out of the ordinary or listen at the door, then they're going to catch anything a perception check would catch. BTW, I do encourage people to take a more narrative approach, but much like the DMG talks about style when doing RP I don't care how a player states their actions as long as it's clear. I'd say it's clear at least 80% of the time and if it's not I ask for a clarification. But this is not a new opinion for me. I've never liked the "tell me how you..." even back in ye olden AD&D days. I'm not a thief, my PC is. My PC knows how to safely check a door for traps, I don't. You're the one so dead set that there must be a setback before a PC can attempt to do something, not me. If someone tries to climb the wall that can't be climbed, they may not realize it couldn't be climbed until they tried. If an NPC is telling the truth, they'll probably get a "they seem to be telling the truth". When it comes to traps and whatnot, there definitely can be serious setbacks. Or if they need to climb a cliff and falling could be deadly of course. Depending on the campaign and group, yes I promote a sense of paranoia. In other campaigns, not so much. In a campaign of political intrigue, not knowing who you can trust, paranoia is just one of many tools in the toolkit. My point is this: If someone says "I'm a bit paranoid about this alley, I look cautiously for an ambush before I enter. Can I get a perception check?" I'm going to tell them about the trap on the ground even though it's not an ambush. If someone is using insight (however invoked) because they believe someone is lying, they're paying close attention to the person. They may pick up emotions other then deception such as fear, love, envy, any number of hints and clues not related to lying. In those cases I think the goal is kind of meaningless. If the goal is not obvious I ask for clarification. As I've stated before, if people think their PCs would be paranoid about a trap they get passive checks in exchange for moving more slowly because they're being cautious. If they're particularly paranoid because they want to open a chest or jewelry box because they're objects that would be logically trapped then they can roll and use the higher of their passive or the roll. But yeah, in my games there's not going to be a neon sign. Then again doors that get used all the time aren't going to be trapped either because that would just be dumb IMHO. Obviously using passive values does mean that there will be times when someone's passive is so high they detect every trap in which case I'll just narrate it. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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