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General Tabletop Discussion
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7595862" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>I realize this isnt the thrust of your point but... this is a gross misrepresentation or spin of my points and references to thevrukes... </p><p>"The point is, the untrained guy, as [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] points out, fails social checks that carry any sort of real penalty at least half the time."</p><p></p><p>I already gave the references to the charts on DCs etc. At best, your claim there is a cherry picked case expressed in a manner that makes it feel like a description of the system beyond its scope but which isnt. At worst, its deceptive or misleading. </p><p></p><p>So, you want to pursue that agenda, fine, but citing me as a reference when my post pushed back on the skin you are pushing is misrepresentative of what I said. </p><p></p><p>To be clear, by the system, for friendly and indifferent targets your persuasion efforts dont have the chance to make it worse and together you have a much higher than 50/50 chance of success - even with straight up approach. With effort (gain advantage) it gets even better. </p><p></p><p>So unless you are limiting it to persuading actively hostile folks as your benchmark **or** limiting your persuasive efforts to cases where you are asking them to put themselves at risk or make a sacrifice *&and** ignoring any efforts to get advantage, your presentation is flawed.</p><p></p><p>If you are limiting to those and then using those at your baseline for the general assessment of "not very persuasive" that's an odd baseline to be painted with such a broad tag.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7595862, member: 6919838"] I realize this isnt the thrust of your point but... this is a gross misrepresentation or spin of my points and references to thevrukes... "The point is, the untrained guy, as [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] points out, fails social checks that carry any sort of real penalty at least half the time." I already gave the references to the charts on DCs etc. At best, your claim there is a cherry picked case expressed in a manner that makes it feel like a description of the system beyond its scope but which isnt. At worst, its deceptive or misleading. So, you want to pursue that agenda, fine, but citing me as a reference when my post pushed back on the skin you are pushing is misrepresentative of what I said. To be clear, by the system, for friendly and indifferent targets your persuasion efforts dont have the chance to make it worse and together you have a much higher than 50/50 chance of success - even with straight up approach. With effort (gain advantage) it gets even better. So unless you are limiting it to persuading actively hostile folks as your benchmark **or** limiting your persuasive efforts to cases where you are asking them to put themselves at risk or make a sacrifice *&and** ignoring any efforts to get advantage, your presentation is flawed. If you are limiting to those and then using those at your baseline for the general assessment of "not very persuasive" that's an odd baseline to be painted with such a broad tag. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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