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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7595955" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>I admire [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] for their persistence in agsin climbing down the morphing shifting rabbit hole offer up, but hey, evetybody's got to have a hobby.</p><p></p><p>I find the ladder funny and just tha latest swerve retread so I will toss in a line or two which I am sure clearly shows I misunderstand the wonders of the approach.</p><p></p><p>I (and Hussar I suspect and many others) consider cases in which **as GMs** we provide a wall the PCs might need or want to get over **and** a ladder they can just pick up (or crates they can stack) and use as **not an obstacle** or **not a challenge**. Its the equivalent to "I get out of bed" or "I eat lunch" and so on and so on. They dontvrise near the level of challenge, obstacle or as I tend to specify "challenge that matters."</p><p></p><p>The only way these have significance worth their "resolution" is if something else makes it a challenge - like bad guys en route do you havevtimevyo stack or are you better off preparing to fight using crates stacked up as cover - not ladder.</p><p></p><p>In all my years of gaming, I have never once saw there be any, none, not one bit of confusion when a ladder or crates were there as to whether a PC was using them to climb or not. So, the bendy wendy timey riney rabbit hole does not help me there either.</p><p></p><p>The ladder and crates and wall example is yet another *chosen* example that highlights the point - it's back to the escape room. If the GM is gonna **provide** player-side solutions that dont need the skills of the character involved in a "challenge" or "obstacle" then they devalue those character-side skills and more to the point the player choices made in choosing those skills.</p><p></p><p>The more the GM does this, the less those choices matter. The more the GM does this, the more they show which choices at chargen matter and which can be "solved" by rabbit holing.</p><p></p><p>Now, in my experience, the more games are run by GMs who more strongly push this rabbit hole escape room approach to some of the aspects of the gameplay, the worse they have played out and the more it seemed that "playing the GM" by following down the rabbit hole was the best route.</p><p></p><p>Of course, now queue up the endless redirects to that doesnt happen, we dont put solutions, we are unaffected by influences and are like totally fair man... etc etc etc...</p><p></p><p>Then look back to the escspe room example and now the ladder and crates... both dialed up to spotlight cases and both examples ehere the GM setup the solutions and obstacles (or did I miss the memo that says some other force mandates all walls have ladders left nearby?)</p><p></p><p>I love carrots and rabbit stew, but this rabbit hole is just too deep and windy for me to go deeper than that.</p><p></p><p>Likely just another sign of how much I misunderstand about this glorious thing that is GMing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7595955, member: 6919838"] I admire [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] for their persistence in agsin climbing down the morphing shifting rabbit hole offer up, but hey, evetybody's got to have a hobby. I find the ladder funny and just tha latest swerve retread so I will toss in a line or two which I am sure clearly shows I misunderstand the wonders of the approach. I (and Hussar I suspect and many others) consider cases in which **as GMs** we provide a wall the PCs might need or want to get over **and** a ladder they can just pick up (or crates they can stack) and use as **not an obstacle** or **not a challenge**. Its the equivalent to "I get out of bed" or "I eat lunch" and so on and so on. They dontvrise near the level of challenge, obstacle or as I tend to specify "challenge that matters." The only way these have significance worth their "resolution" is if something else makes it a challenge - like bad guys en route do you havevtimevyo stack or are you better off preparing to fight using crates stacked up as cover - not ladder. In all my years of gaming, I have never once saw there be any, none, not one bit of confusion when a ladder or crates were there as to whether a PC was using them to climb or not. So, the bendy wendy timey riney rabbit hole does not help me there either. The ladder and crates and wall example is yet another *chosen* example that highlights the point - it's back to the escape room. If the GM is gonna **provide** player-side solutions that dont need the skills of the character involved in a "challenge" or "obstacle" then they devalue those character-side skills and more to the point the player choices made in choosing those skills. The more the GM does this, the less those choices matter. The more the GM does this, the more they show which choices at chargen matter and which can be "solved" by rabbit holing. Now, in my experience, the more games are run by GMs who more strongly push this rabbit hole escape room approach to some of the aspects of the gameplay, the worse they have played out and the more it seemed that "playing the GM" by following down the rabbit hole was the best route. Of course, now queue up the endless redirects to that doesnt happen, we dont put solutions, we are unaffected by influences and are like totally fair man... etc etc etc... Then look back to the escspe room example and now the ladder and crates... both dialed up to spotlight cases and both examples ehere the GM setup the solutions and obstacles (or did I miss the memo that says some other force mandates all walls have ladders left nearby?) I love carrots and rabbit stew, but this rabbit hole is just too deep and windy for me to go deeper than that. Likely just another sign of how much I misunderstand about this glorious thing that is GMing. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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