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General Tabletop Discussion
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7596824" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>So advice to that effect - deciding success based on the check result rather than setting a DC in advance - is found in a sidebar on p 3 of the DM Guidelines document from the 5e playtest (I've got it dated 19 September 2013 - I'd copy and paste it, but the document also has a prominent "confidential information" notice at the top of each page!). The sidebar concludes by saying that <em>the players will never know</em> - so there's at least a suggestion of GM fudging/control over outcomes.</p><p></p><p>I don't recall this being in the 4e DMG, and on a quick flick through just now didn't find it. I did find the following, though (on p 12), which is one reason why I don't feel the 4e/5e contrast that is being drawn in this thread:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Being a referee means that the DM stands as a mediator between the rules and the players. A player tells the DM what he wants to do, and the DM responds by telling the character what kind of check to make and mentally setting the target number. If a player tells the DM he wants his character to swing his greataxe at an orc, the DM says, "Make an attack roll," while looking up the orc's Armor Class.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">That'’s such a simple example that most players take it for granted and don't wait for the DM to ask for the attack roll. But if the player tells you that he wants his character to knock over a brazier full of hot coals into the orc's face, you (as the DM) have to make some snap judgments. How hard is it to knock over the heavy, solid metal brazier? "Make a Strength check," you might respond, while mentally setting the DC at 15. If the Strength check is successful, you have to figure out how a face full of hot coals affects the orc, and might decide it deals 1d6 points of fire damage and gives the orc a –2 penalty to attack rolls for a round.</p><p></p><p>See, I don't really agree with this. The passage I just quoted doesn't suggest this to me at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7596824, member: 42582"] So advice to that effect - deciding success based on the check result rather than setting a DC in advance - is found in a sidebar on p 3 of the DM Guidelines document from the 5e playtest (I've got it dated 19 September 2013 - I'd copy and paste it, but the document also has a prominent "confidential information" notice at the top of each page!). The sidebar concludes by saying that [I]the players will never know[/I] - so there's at least a suggestion of GM fudging/control over outcomes. I don't recall this being in the 4e DMG, and on a quick flick through just now didn't find it. I did find the following, though (on p 12), which is one reason why I don't feel the 4e/5e contrast that is being drawn in this thread: [indent]Being a referee means that the DM stands as a mediator between the rules and the players. A player tells the DM what he wants to do, and the DM responds by telling the character what kind of check to make and mentally setting the target number. If a player tells the DM he wants his character to swing his greataxe at an orc, the DM says, "Make an attack roll," while looking up the orc's Armor Class. That'’s such a simple example that most players take it for granted and don't wait for the DM to ask for the attack roll. But if the player tells you that he wants his character to knock over a brazier full of hot coals into the orc's face, you (as the DM) have to make some snap judgments. How hard is it to knock over the heavy, solid metal brazier? "Make a Strength check," you might respond, while mentally setting the DC at 15. If the Strength check is successful, you have to figure out how a face full of hot coals affects the orc, and might decide it deals 1d6 points of fire damage and gives the orc a –2 penalty to attack rolls for a round.[/indent] See, I don't really agree with this. The passage I just quoted doesn't suggest this to me at all. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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