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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7597384" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Seeing as my standard has been referred to, I thought I would say something more about it. I don't know that the following remarks are apropos of anything in particular, but this thread is well past 1000 posts so I don't think I'm obliged to stay strictly on-topic.</p><p></p><p>One thing is this: another current thread has given me the impression that some people don't <em>want</em> more dramatic roleplaying. They prefer (what they describe as) more "realistic"/"immersive" roleplaying, which (I would say) involves less drama and more haggling over the price of goods, describing how camps are pitched and dismantled, establishing precise details as to the presence and character of architectural features, etc.</p><p></p><p>A second thing is that some RPGers seem to envisage the "story" or the "plot" as something to be presented by the GM to the players - so that the drama is provided by that (often pre-established) story/plot. [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION]'s idea of the players <em>not knowing what happens next</em> also seems to be an example of something like this - it is the GM who decides what happens next, and for the players the drama consists in that revelation. That sort of approach isn't necessarily going to want a method of the sort I personally like - you can often see this thought reflected in comments like "It's bad adventure design to allow the <whatever> to be gated behind a die roll". That way of thinking about scenario design and adjudication is pretty much the antithesis of what I advocated as a means to achieve "better and more dramatic roleplaying".</p><p></p><p>A third thing is something that I think of in terms of rationalism vs existentialism (others may not use these particular categories!). The rationalist sees a choice situation as a situation of <em>calculation</em> or <em>optimisation</em> - what ought I to do here to maximise my expected return? Whereas the existentialist sees a choice situation as an imposition of the will upon the world - to paraphrase/butcher Merleau-Ponty (because I can't remember the quote properly), the choice answers a call from a future that the choosing person helps to create through his/her choice. I tend to prefer RPGs that favour, or at least support, an existentialist rather than rationalist approach by the player - this can be a function of resolution mechanics but also of non-mechanical adjudication techniques (such as "fail forward", or permitting success on a check to significantly change the shared fiction which, following Luke Crane in Burning Wheel, I tend to call "intent and task"). Conversely, classic "skilled play" and also many of the presentations in this thread of "goal and approach" are in what I've called the rationalist camp. For those who incline that way, the particular approach to resolution that I advocate is probably less appealing than it is to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7597384, member: 42582"] Seeing as my standard has been referred to, I thought I would say something more about it. I don't know that the following remarks are apropos of anything in particular, but this thread is well past 1000 posts so I don't think I'm obliged to stay strictly on-topic. One thing is this: another current thread has given me the impression that some people don't [I]want[/I] more dramatic roleplaying. They prefer (what they describe as) more "realistic"/"immersive" roleplaying, which (I would say) involves less drama and more haggling over the price of goods, describing how camps are pitched and dismantled, establishing precise details as to the presence and character of architectural features, etc. A second thing is that some RPGers seem to envisage the "story" or the "plot" as something to be presented by the GM to the players - so that the drama is provided by that (often pre-established) story/plot. [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION]'s idea of the players [I]not knowing what happens next[/I] also seems to be an example of something like this - it is the GM who decides what happens next, and for the players the drama consists in that revelation. That sort of approach isn't necessarily going to want a method of the sort I personally like - you can often see this thought reflected in comments like "It's bad adventure design to allow the <whatever> to be gated behind a die roll". That way of thinking about scenario design and adjudication is pretty much the antithesis of what I advocated as a means to achieve "better and more dramatic roleplaying". A third thing is something that I think of in terms of rationalism vs existentialism (others may not use these particular categories!). The rationalist sees a choice situation as a situation of [I]calculation[/I] or [I]optimisation[/I] - what ought I to do here to maximise my expected return? Whereas the existentialist sees a choice situation as an imposition of the will upon the world - to paraphrase/butcher Merleau-Ponty (because I can't remember the quote properly), the choice answers a call from a future that the choosing person helps to create through his/her choice. I tend to prefer RPGs that favour, or at least support, an existentialist rather than rationalist approach by the player - this can be a function of resolution mechanics but also of non-mechanical adjudication techniques (such as "fail forward", or permitting success on a check to significantly change the shared fiction which, following Luke Crane in Burning Wheel, I tend to call "intent and task"). Conversely, classic "skilled play" and also many of the presentations in this thread of "goal and approach" are in what I've called the rationalist camp. For those who incline that way, the particular approach to resolution that I advocate is probably less appealing than it is to me. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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