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General Tabletop Discussion
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7598032" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Who's having failures not trigger meaningful consequences? The chandelier did fall, the character did believe the lie. Is anyone arguing for a lack of meaningful consequences for failure?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem, I think, that folks are having here is how you can both telegraph a trap AND surprise a player with that trap. Or, and this is my bigger issue, if you tell a possible consequence of failure to the player and then go with a totally different consequence, don't your players get annoyed?</p><p></p><p>I mean, if I'm swinging on that chandelier (why is this always an example? In 30+ years of gaming I've NEVER seen a player try this) and you tell me that I'll miss the jump if I fail my check and then have the chandelier break, don't your players react pretty negatively?</p><p></p><p>I've been repeatedly told that allowing my players to roll first will result in the players being angry for things like "Well, I didn't SAY I was doing that". I avoid that by being pretty clear up front that actions are resolved AFTER the roll, which means that the DM gets a smidgeon of control over the character from time to time. Making that roll indicates that you are okay with that.</p><p></p><p>But, if you tell me X is going to happen if I fail and then Y happens, how is that not a bait and switch? "I wouldn't have done that if I thought that THAT could happen."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7598032, member: 22779"] Who's having failures not trigger meaningful consequences? The chandelier did fall, the character did believe the lie. Is anyone arguing for a lack of meaningful consequences for failure? The problem, I think, that folks are having here is how you can both telegraph a trap AND surprise a player with that trap. Or, and this is my bigger issue, if you tell a possible consequence of failure to the player and then go with a totally different consequence, don't your players get annoyed? I mean, if I'm swinging on that chandelier (why is this always an example? In 30+ years of gaming I've NEVER seen a player try this) and you tell me that I'll miss the jump if I fail my check and then have the chandelier break, don't your players react pretty negatively? I've been repeatedly told that allowing my players to roll first will result in the players being angry for things like "Well, I didn't SAY I was doing that". I avoid that by being pretty clear up front that actions are resolved AFTER the roll, which means that the DM gets a smidgeon of control over the character from time to time. Making that roll indicates that you are okay with that. But, if you tell me X is going to happen if I fail and then Y happens, how is that not a bait and switch? "I wouldn't have done that if I thought that THAT could happen." [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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