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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7599407" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>To reiterate the obvious, I'm not [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION]. Still, I think my response to this question is consistent with what Charlaquin has said upthread: <em>you, the GM, tell me</em>. I mean, it's the GM's job to frame a situation that will be engaging for the players, and if that situation is going to be a lich's gauntlet of death than it's on the GM to find a way of making that engaging rather than just an experience in literalness.</p><p></p><p>If you, as a GM, want to keep threats and consequences hidden from your players well that's your prerogative. But you can't blame this on the fiction, given that <em>you wrote that</em>!</p><p></p><p>There are many ways to establish the nature of threats and of consequences than the ones that you canvass here. But I won't pursue that any further in this thread given that I started another for that purpose!</p><p></p><p>*********************************</p><p></p><p>Well I'm pretty confident I understand how [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] runs 5e although I have never run a RPG that way and can't envisage doing so in the future. (I've run AD&D and B/X, and those are designed to be run more-or-less in iserith's way, but I wasn't good at it then and am not good at it now; the really successful AD&D games that I ran were heavily drifted from the default expectation.)</p><p></p><p>One recurrent point of disagreement I've noticed has been the significance, on the "goal and approach" method, of player descriptions. I think it's clear that "flowery language" is not relevant. It's not obvious to me that some degree of eloquence is not relevant, given that the player is expected to state reasonably clearly what his/her PC is doing. Given that RPGing is (at least as I do it) an exercise in oral communication and the sharing of ideas, I don't see anything objectionable about this. I expect this in my GMing, and if I'm not sure what a player thinks is going on with their PC in the fiction will ask. (I then do a different thing with that information from what [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] does, as per my posts upthread.)</p><p></p><p>As per another current thread, I don't think the <em>artistry</em> of the communication is core to RPGing, but that's a different thing from well thought out and clearly communicated ideas.</p><p></p><p>I personally don't find this a very tenable explanation. I believe that there are a number of posters on these boards who are not participating in this thread, who understand how you run your game, but who don't necessarily care for it - roughly speaking, because their preferences are closer to mine.</p><p></p><p>My own conjecture is that a number of those who you are arguing with - maybe not all - either formed their RPGing tastes in the era of Dragonlance and then 2nd ed AD&D, or had their RPGing tastes informed by the legacy of that era (eg at 3E tables playing in a similar fashion). They are therefore working with radically different conceptions of what the GM's role is, how the players are expected to engage with the shared fiction, what the relationship is between mechanics and fiction, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7599407, member: 42582"] To reiterate the obvious, I'm not [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION]. Still, I think my response to this question is consistent with what Charlaquin has said upthread: [I]you, the GM, tell me[/I]. I mean, it's the GM's job to frame a situation that will be engaging for the players, and if that situation is going to be a lich's gauntlet of death than it's on the GM to find a way of making that engaging rather than just an experience in literalness. If you, as a GM, want to keep threats and consequences hidden from your players well that's your prerogative. But you can't blame this on the fiction, given that [I]you wrote that[/I]! There are many ways to establish the nature of threats and of consequences than the ones that you canvass here. But I won't pursue that any further in this thread given that I started another for that purpose! ********************************* Well I'm pretty confident I understand how [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] runs 5e although I have never run a RPG that way and can't envisage doing so in the future. (I've run AD&D and B/X, and those are designed to be run more-or-less in iserith's way, but I wasn't good at it then and am not good at it now; the really successful AD&D games that I ran were heavily drifted from the default expectation.) One recurrent point of disagreement I've noticed has been the significance, on the "goal and approach" method, of player descriptions. I think it's clear that "flowery language" is not relevant. It's not obvious to me that some degree of eloquence is not relevant, given that the player is expected to state reasonably clearly what his/her PC is doing. Given that RPGing is (at least as I do it) an exercise in oral communication and the sharing of ideas, I don't see anything objectionable about this. I expect this in my GMing, and if I'm not sure what a player thinks is going on with their PC in the fiction will ask. (I then do a different thing with that information from what [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] does, as per my posts upthread.) As per another current thread, I don't think the [I]artistry[/I] of the communication is core to RPGing, but that's a different thing from well thought out and clearly communicated ideas. I personally don't find this a very tenable explanation. I believe that there are a number of posters on these boards who are not participating in this thread, who understand how you run your game, but who don't necessarily care for it - roughly speaking, because their preferences are closer to mine. My own conjecture is that a number of those who you are arguing with - maybe not all - either formed their RPGing tastes in the era of Dragonlance and then 2nd ed AD&D, or had their RPGing tastes informed by the legacy of that era (eg at 3E tables playing in a similar fashion). They are therefore working with radically different conceptions of what the GM's role is, how the players are expected to engage with the shared fiction, what the relationship is between mechanics and fiction, etc. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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