Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 6021657" data-attributes="member: 58416">The problem isn't that you cannot rp and do things outside of combat in 4E.  You can rp in any game; I can rp during a game of Clue or Monopoly if I really want to.  For me, the issue is that 4E does not reward my efforts in non-combat things in a way which is meaningful or satisfying to me.Sure, I can buy land or build a castle or become a lord; there's nothing in the game saying I can't.  However, the suggested reward is maybe a circumstantial +2 on diplomacy and a few stats to treat my castle as a magic item.  (I'm not suggesting there are not dms who do otherwise.)The problem becomes (and this is a 3rd Edition problem as well) that the system expects too much about what level means.  I have to have certain items; certain numbers, and etc as they relate to combat encounters.  If I spend money on endeavors which do not boost my ability in that area of play, I am behind the curve.  If my non-combat endeavors give me money and items I should not have, I am ahead of the curve.The solution I've most often seen suggested for that is for the DM to secretly put extra treasure into parcels to make up for revenue lost in non-combat endeavors or to hand out less to make up for the players having too much.  To me -as a player- that makes me feel as though my pursuit of those other things was meaningless and pointless.  If my actions need to have outcomes which are bound my the metagame assumptions of the system, that's not very satisfying to me.I've recently started playing 1st Edition for the first time, and what I see is that there seems to be less assumption about what I should be able to do at a given level.  Yes, my character does get stronger, and you do need better items for stronger foes.  However, it's not nearly (at least it doesn't seem to be so far) as gamebreaking if I get a little extra money from non-combat activities because the game doesn't assume I will have a +X sword at level Y.  While, yes, magic items are still important, I do not see the Magic Item Christmas Tree style of character in conjunction with the heavy metagame assumptions of what a character should have in the same way I see it in 3rd and 4th Edition.  It's ok for the DM and the gameworld to offer me risk and reward outside of combat because it doesn't break the game assumptions for me to fail or succeed at tasks which are not assumed to be the primary method for advancement.  I completely agree that you can roleplay in 4th Edition.  I've done it, so I know it is possible.  You can also engage in non-combat activities.  I simply do not feel that the ideals about gameplay and assumptions the game is built upon allow for the system to reward me in the manner I'd like to be rewarded for those things.  A lot of times I feel that I need to make a choice between what I'd really like to do and what the game says I should do, and I don't like that.  I've come to accept it as being simply part of how modern D&D works, but it's not my preference, and I can certainly understand why there are others who feel as though support for non-combat activities are somewhat lacking.  Still, maybe that is just part of the D&D style; maybe wanting other things naturally leads to games and systems which are more geared toward making those other aspects of play feel more rewarding.</blockquote>

Verification